Some 'well Fans And Their Bloody Pish!

[Ernie]

but did joe wark ever have to face dougie mcdonald?

 

every team in scotland's fans (and probably all fans around the world) will tell you about the truly great players their teams used to have. i think it has more to do with the fact that people saw less fitba and had fewer ways of comparing players.

 

 

Get tae, if anything we saw more football and it was better football. Joe Wark might not have had to face McDonald but go and look up referees like Bobby Valentine and Tiny Wharton they make Dougie McDonald look like what he is an utter pussy.

 

st john - faddy - No where near as successful as the Saint was

mcloy - admitedly we've not had many top keepers but big randy might be the one

forsyth - mcculloch - Lee McCulloch???? Forsyth was a defender, McCulloch was a diver

pettigrew - clarky - No chance

wark - hammell will beat his record

deans - mcdonald - Only thing they have in common they both went to Celtic

 

Don't slag off the opinions of those who have seen all these players in the flesh and not heard or read about them.

[Wellfan1984]

None of those could lace Wullie McFadyen's boots or no doubt any of the late 20's to 30's teams.

 

What absolute bollocks comparing quality. Those 50 year olds, how many top league titles? How many Scottish Cups did you witness these players win for Motherwell?

[yosemite sam]

You obviously forgot the team of the 50's who won the league and the Scottish Cup. How many scottish international players do we have now. In the 60's we had five Motherwell players in the one scottish team. No it's unfortunate but the guys of today are definately fitter but they are most definately not better.

[john_M_F_C]

You cannot compare players from different eras.

[yosemite sam]

Your wrong! It's only younger fans who can't compare, because they have only seen the modern players. Older guys have seen both the older players and the younger ones. So they can make a comparison. Whether you like that comparison or not is up to you.

[Ernie]

None of those could lace Wullie McFadyen's boots or no doubt any of the late 20's to 30's teams.

 

What absolute bollocks comparing quality. Those 50 year olds, how many top league titles? How many Scottish Cups did you witness these players win for Motherwell?

 

Okay maybe they didn't win any titles or any cups but that doesn't mean they were any worse than the team of today. By the way the 91 team are one of the best group of players I ever saw at Fir Park but they didn't have many who were outstanding although they did have a bit of class about them and incidentally they would have walked away with the Premier League if they had been up against the quality of this season. See the thing is that your modern player doesn't have the same ball skills as your old stager, yes they are faster but the likes of Pettigrew, Wark et cetera would adapt better to the modern day than vice versa. Some of the tackles that used to get thrown about would snap half of these prima donnas in two whilst Pettigrew et al bounced and got on with the game.

The absolute bollocks by the way is that you can't comment on these players because you never saw them in the flesh and TV doesn't do them or their peers justice and that is not a comment through rose tinted glasses. So just take the opinion of an older generation and respect it the same way that we respect yours

[Malky79]

st john - faddy

mcloy - admitedly we've not had many top keepers but big randy might be the one

forsyth - mcculloch

pettigrew - clarky

wark - hammell will beat his record

deans - mcdonald

 

I'd quibble with choice of players but a reasonable general point, most younger fans have seen many a decent player in their time.

 

St. John mibbe had a better career but Faddy was still a great talent

For Wark, a Tom Boyd or Rab McKinnon. Wark the true club legend but for ability I think these two stand up well.

Other guys like Tommy Coyne, Lambert, Cooper, even Ross McCormack. Big Sieb was a quality keeper.

 

So yeah only older guys can make the comparison but I'm guessing only the misty eyed specs makes most of the difference.

 

Mibbe the pace of the game is increased and we see less attacking 2-3-5 formations and less entertaintment but I doubt average quality would be drasticaly different.

[Yabba's Turd]

None of those could lace Wullie McFadyen's boots or no doubt any of the late 20's to 30's teams.

Apparently he was an arse and anyone could have scored those goals since they were put on a plate by both wingers for him, and don't give me this pish about being there to score goals, if he was half decent he would have scored 80 goals that season.

[Shotts Well Fan]

I'd quibble with choice of players but a reasonable general point, most younger fans have seen many a decent player in their time.

 

St. John mibbe had a better career but Faddy was still a great talent

For Wark, a Tom Boyd or Rab McKinnon. Wark the true club legend but for ability I think these two stand up well.

Other guys like Tommy Coyne, Lambert, Cooper, even Ross McCormack. Big Sieb was a quality keeper.

 

So yeah only older guys can make the comparison but I'm guessing only the misty eyed specs makes most of the difference.

 

Mibbe the pace of the game is increased and we see less attacking 2-3-5 formations and less entertaintment but I doubt average quality would be drasticaly different.

 

 

Malky, I would have actually included many of the players you mention but was trying to keep to an era where 50 somethings would have seen players play. MacFadden would be in any of my all time Well teams and Cooper would be too.

 

I disagree about the average quality of players bewteen then and now and as others have said modern day players may be fitter and faster but have no where near the skill. You only have to see that in Scotland international teams when in the 60/70's and 80's we were a team to be respected. Now we are just utter p%sh and full of ordinary players.

[yosemite sam]

Apparently he was an arse and anyone could have scored those goals since they were put on a plate by both wingers for him, and don't give me this pish about being there to score goals, if he was half decent he would have scored 80 goals that season.

 

Why are you talking about Wullie McFadyen. Nobody brought him into the debate, other that Welldell. Noboby has said anything about him being there to score goals. The older members of this forum have never mentioned him. So what's your problem?

I do agree with Shotts. Faddy will always be one of my favourites, as would Davie Cooper, Dougie Arnott, Tom Boyd, but you have to remember these 3 players were playing for Motherwell 20 years ago now! Seems just like yesterday doesn't it.

[Yabba's Turd]

Why are you talking about Wullie McFadyen. Nobody brought him into the debate, other that Welldell.

None of those players etc....

[stoney]

Malky, I would have actually included many of the players you mention but was trying to keep to an era where 50 somethings would have seen players play. MacFadden would be in any of my all time Well teams and Cooper would be too.

 

I disagree about the average quality of players bewteen then and now and as others have said modern day players may be fitter and faster but have no where near the skill. You only have to see that in Scotland international teams when in the 60/70's and 80's we were a team to be respected. Now we are just utter p%sh and full of ordinary players.

 

Big difference is that in the "good old days" we never got so much football on telly from all the many multi angles and over analysis. So us old guys can only go by our memories, just like we did at the time. But at the time there was as much abuse dished out to our players for lack if skill than there is nowadays

 

As for the Scotland side it was simply that other countries were so far behind us. The scandanavian countries were our feeder leagues and an easy draw for clubs or country and there were not as many "countries" as there are now with their much larger populations than us

 

football is a totally different game than it was in the 60s/70s and you cant really compare players from the past.

Good defenders of old would last about 1-2 tackles before getting sent off

Flying wingers from the past would not be able to pass any modern defender at ease

Silky midfieldes would not have the time to find space and get a pass off

[Malky79]

Malky, I would have actually included many of the players you mention but was trying to keep to an era where 50 somethings would have seen players play. MacFadden would be in any of my all time Well teams and Cooper would be too.

 

I disagree about the average quality of players bewteen then and now and as others have said modern day players may be fitter and faster but have no where near the skill. You only have to see that in Scotland international teams when in the 60/70's and 80's we were a team to be respected. Now we are just utter p%sh and full of ordinary players.

 

Take the point about Scotland, certainly the players of late 60's to early 80's going by scottish teams success in europe and relative stature of the national team would suggest on the whole we have went backwards as a nation. Although there is a definately an element that the depth of quality in world football is much increased as well hence our increased difficulty in getting to major finals. I also reckon that the top club teams in europe now with the even bigger gulf in wealth and increased scouting and recruitment of players from Africa and South America are better now than they were back then and undoubted quality that likes Souness, Dalglish, Hansen, going back further Bremners, Lisbon Lions era were they might have had it slightly easier. Lets face it good as they were and possibly somewhat mismanaged but we always failed on the big stage as a national team back then also just at least we got to World Cup finals at least which seems in itself something like the search for the Holy Grail now!

 

My point however was more about seeing quality players in claret and amber and whilst it nigh on impossible to compare generations think most of us have seen some pretty good players even in relatively recent times. The current product of the SPL is pretty low though and the high prices compared to entertainment on the park is on average way out of proportion.

[steelboy]

Get tae, if anything we saw more football and it was better football.

 

whit? before sky you were lucky if you got one live game a week, these days you could pretty much watch live fitba 24/7 if you wanted to.

 

there's also a clear connection between players becoming 'less skilled' and fitter, players get less time on the ball and there's more emphasis on defending. a team of fitzpatricks would beat a teams forbeses every time.

 

also celtic won the european cup on the toss of a coin so it doesn't count

[Ernie]

whit? before sky you were lucky if you got one live game a week, these days you could pretty much watch live fitba 24/7 if you wanted to.

 

there's also a clear connection between players becoming 'less skilled' and fitter, players get less time on the ball and there's more emphasis on defending. a team of fitzpatricks would beat a teams forbeses every time.

also celtic won the european cup on the toss of a coin so it doesn't count

 

This is one of the problems with football these days it is on TV too much, so kids don't get the buzz of going to a football game to see their heroes because their heroes play football for some foreign team miles away in a different country in a different world. I used to go and see the 'Well almost every week as did many others and was never ruled by who was or wasn't playing on telly. That is what I meant by we saw more football, crowds of 14 and 15 K for games against Aberdeen, Dundee, Hearts not struggling to make 10K for a game in Europe.

 

As for Fitzpatrick versuses Forbes. Pettigrew could beat them both on most occassions but Bobby Graham would take them both anytime.

[Well Up For It!]

Love how this thread has veered off on a wild tangent!

 

Anyway, it's impossible to compare players from a bygone era with players of today as its a completely diffrent game.

 

Back in the 70's players had skill and ability sure, but a fast majority smoked, drank regularly and ate and unhealthy diet. They were gifted players, thats all.

 

Today, players are athletes. Their diets are controlled, their fitness levels are maximum, the avergae player is more agily with better technical ability, they have better equipment (boots, etc) and the game tactics have changed dramatically. They may not have the same "natural ability" but they have advantage on everything else.

 

Even Pele said it a few years ago that while its impossible to compare the natural ability of players from 60's/70's and even 80's with players of today, modern day players are much better.

 

If our current squad played the great Motherwell sides of bygone years, let say 80's and earlier, they would walk it no question. The Wullie McFayden team of the 30's played 2-3-5, as did the Ancell babes, and they'd get slaughtered against a fit, well organised modern side.

 

That all said, I firmly believe that games from the past were much more exciting, more goals, etc. I put that down to modern tactics.

[Haggischomper]

This is one of the problems with football these days it is on TV too much, so kids don't get the buzz of going to a football game

 

They don't even go out and play it on the streets/in theparks like they used to cos they are planked in front of the bloody telly watching it.

[Haggischomper]

I put that down to modern tactics.

 

AKA 'Fear of Losing'.

[ONeils40yarder]

They don't even go out and play it on the streets/in theparks like they used to cos they are planked in front of the bloody telly watching it.

 

Maybe in America, but a load of shite here......you never see my boy, because he's constantly outside with his mates kicking a baw, the only fitba' he sees is when I drag him to Fir Park or force him to watch Scotland on the TV.

[Ernie]

Maybe in America, but a load of shite here......you never see my boy, because he's constantly outside with his mates kicking a baw, the only fitba' he sees is when I drag him to Fir Park or force him to watch Scotland on the TV.

 

Well done that is how it should be I wish more parents were like that then maybe we wouldn't be an obese country relying on over priced talent from other countries to play footie for us.

[Haggischomper]

Maybe in America, but a load of shite here......you never see my boy, because he's constantly outside with his mates kicking a baw, the only fitba' he sees is when I drag him to Fir Park or force him to watch Scotland on the TV.

 

Good to hear!

[Welldel]

Seems to be that the kids today are finding football again, my boy plays for his boys club on a saturday, trains on a wednesday and the rest of the week after school, football in the park with his mates. He always has a ball at his feet, even the xbox has been getting ignored.

 

Long may it continue.

[hammy]

I too find my xbox, computer and even tv off a lot now, and more time spent out at football each night, had a big full 11v11 match every night since sunday down the park, and although we're no pro standard or that, we give it a good game each time.

 

If only we could get the younger one's doing the same, me being 6th year now is too old to think about taking it too serious. But get them out each evening, right up until 10 when it gets too dark to play through(got a good month of night football left anyways) then there may well be a hope for scottish football.

 

Judging by how often i see my little cousin on the xbox playing fifa, and with all his friends, they play that well on it this country could have a case for being good at online football, instead of real life.

 

So if we could transfer all the knowledge of online football into the little brains on a proper game - get them performing their rainbow flicks and defence splitting passing football, Scottish Football may yet have a future.

[claretbandonambershirt]

This is one of the problems with football these days it is on TV too much, so kids don't get the buzz of going to a football game to see their heroes because their heroes play football for some foreign team miles away in a different country in a different world. I used to go and see the 'Well almost every week as did many others and was never ruled by who was or wasn't playing on telly. That is what I meant by we saw more football, crowds of 14 and 15 K for games against Aberdeen, Dundee, Hearts not struggling to make 10K for a game in Europe.

 

As for Fitzpatrick versuses Forbes. Pettigrew could beat them both on most occassions but Bobby Graham would take them both anytime.

 

Spot on.

[Fi2810]

I do agree with the person who made the original post in this thread. It is okay to criticise a wee bit but some of them go over the top. I know "they pay their money they have a right to criticise" but what about the folk around them who have paid their money too and want to watch the game without all this drivel being spouted around them?