Well Well Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Just having a look at Joe Wark thread and Kirkie's thread got me wondering. Its been a hell of a long time since we had a real legend at the club in recent times its been Uncle Phil, Craggs James McFadden etc but these guys have been few and far between in recent years. I remember the Joe Warks, Davie Coopers, Psycho O'Neill and going further back Ian St John, Andy Payton, Willie Hunter, Pettigrew, I could go on as we had many many club heroes. Being an old fart and remembering the days when players stayed beyond 3 years at the club I was wondering if we will ever have players with a real affinity with the club and fans. With the financial crisis, bosman, and the general decline of all things football in Scotland have we seen the last of true Well heroes??. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 The closest we have at the moment is probably Craigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Club heroes and what they need to do is different everytime. You can't tell me if one of our players scores the winner in the CIS Cup Semi against Rangers and we go on to win that cup that they won't be a "club" hero. Same with the final goalscorer (or a penalty save from the keeper in a shoot-out) etc won't be club heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankles Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 There will always be heroes at clubs but nowadays they will only be short term as most players always have their eye on their next big move because of the money to be made down south.Who can blame them ,a three year contract in the championship and you could be made for life. My hero this season will be whoever bursts the net to put the h**s out the cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Oddly enough my mate and I were talking about this and thought it was perhaps because we like a lot of the support now are a bit older and find it difficult to hero worship these young guys (We can respect them and support them etc. because they're playing for the club). Its just another reason to encourage the younger generation to come out to football and they can enjoy the hero worship we enjoyed back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhitepele Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Club heroes and what they need to do is different everytime. You can't tell me if one of our players scores the winner in the CIS Cup Semi against Rangers and we go on to win that cup that they won't be a "club" hero. Same with the final goalscorer (or a penalty save from the keeper in a shoot-out) etc won't be club heroes. Correct,it really depends on how you define being a club hero,is it down to how long you are at the club like Craigan or on a players part in a particularly important incident in a game like Fitzpatricks last minute goal v Hearts or the Jukes last minute goal in the 6-6 game both these players would be club heroes for these goals,or maybe you mean club legends which is a whole different ball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Yeah I was thinking more about Legends, heroes come and go really but a player who stays with you your whole life and you know would sacrifice his body for the club every time they stepped on the park or who ignored the calls of the so called bigger clubs to remain with 'his' club. Guys who play through the pain barrier for his club who fails to give up despite being 3-0 down, now those guys I love. Those to me are real Well legends I have changed the heading to reflect what I mean, sorry if this confused anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Club heroes and what they need to do is different everytime. You can't tell me if one of our players scores the winner in the CIS Cup Semi against Rangers and we go on to win that cup that they won't be a "club" hero. Same with the final goalscorer (or a penalty save from the keeper in a shoot-out) etc won't be club heroes. Personally I don't see why it needs to be a Cup Final win. We have a team out there that have qualified for Europe 3 seasons running and sitting 3rd at present. That should be enough to put them down as Club Legends. The nucleus of that team have been Craigan, Hammell, Reynolds, Lasley, Sutton and Murphy of them only one hasn't been brought though the youth system or didn't play for us from an early age. Add to that the other players to be here as part of the team over the 3 years you have Fitzy, Jennings, Humphrey (fast becoming a favourite this season), O'Brien, Coke, Ruddy and Juke. Out of those we seem to praise and worship the guys that are only with us a short time Ruddy and the Juke being examples. I wonder how the same sort of support would have helped the likes of Murphy, Fitzpatrick and Fagan to reach higher levels. Murphy is starting to show again what he is capable of. Fitzy may not get that chance again and he could end up like Fagan. Both score important goals early in the career and the fans mindset is set to look for them doing it more in the future. A lot of fans seem to forget what these guys give us in a defensive sense and if they don't see them in and around the oppositions box for most of the game they had a bad game. Even if it's been these guys that have won the ball and started of the move that leads to the goal. Don't get me wrong I can get frustrated at players but I don't constantly find myself looking for them to make a bad pass just so I can bawl and shout abuse at them. It does bring it back to I pays my money I do what I like argument. However it might be worth thinking that if I back the player maybe I'l get more than my money's worth. The OP talked about players with a real infinity for the Club and Fans, Crags, Hammell and Lasley have to fall into category as does in my opinion Reynolds. I also have the feeling that if Pearson and McDonald hadn't played up to the ramblings of the Press and their agents they'd would've been praised by the fans in the same way that McFadden is. You look at the older players in the team just now I wouldn't be unhappy to still see Lasley, Hammell and Sutton still playing with us for another couple of years. I would love to say Crags but he isn't the young player he once was. I am pretty sure in 10 years time we will be having the same conversation and trying to find out who is going to be classed as a legend. Hopefully by then some of today's team may have lifted some silverware or qualified for the Group Stages of the Europa League. I have deliberately not mentioned Saunder, Page, McHugh and Hutchison of the team as these could be some of the players we are talking about then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Usually players don’t hang around long enough to earn legend/hero status. The lure of better wages will see the good and not so good players leave for more money. Back in the day, I’m not sure if Joe was ever approached by any other club and offered a better financial deal. My memory is a bit hazy from back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Ah, this old chestnut... how many times have we discussed this on the boards now? IMHO, almost by definition, club legends only come around once every generation or so. The legends of my generation are the '91 Cup Winning team, and (at a stretch) Faddy. The generation before that had the likes of Wark, Pettigrew and Graham. Just don't think the next generation has found theirs yet... the 2011 CIS Cup winning team, perhaps...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I would propose Craig and Archie are one Cup one win short of being our next club Legends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 only 25 players have made 200 post war league appearances for motherwell and two of them are current players - craigan and hammell. lasley will be the 26th the next time he plays in the spl. by christmas hammell should be outright third for post war league appearances, only willie kilmarnock and joe wark will be ahead of him. in all competitions hammell, craigan, lasley, reynolds and murphy have a combined 1116 appearnces and 44 years service. both within the context of the modern day game and the context of history of the club we're seeing some remarkable service at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 hammell, craigan, lasley, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlukemurray Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 This is an interesting topic. I wouldn't qualify someone who has given years of service as a legend. I would say that Craigan is a top professional, but not a legend. That would be like saying John O'Shea is a Manchester United legend. As for Lasley and Hammell, they have both given fantastic service as well, but I would also class them as good pro's rather than legends. Your point about legends staying at the same club is an interesting one. Could it be that the three players mentioned above are not good enough to get a move to a 'better' club and a higher wage? A legend has to do something remarkable, put their stamp on a moment in time, get you on the edge of your seat, get you talking about them pre and post game. McFadden was the last player to do that for me at Fir Park. Murphy has the potential to do the same and go on to a higher stage than we can offer. I do like Jennings who may well have the potential to go on to be a Colin O'Neill type figure, or get a move elsewhere. Good topic/debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 i think you can be a legend through great service to the club (wark,philliben) and by being skilled exciting like faddy. fadddy is no doubt a legend but he only won 16 matches in a motherwell shirt and as much as he was an exciting, brilliant player to watch it's easy to forget that he was quite often extremely frustrating trying to do too much himself. he's definitely a huge figure in the history of the club due to when he emerged and the boost we got from him but i wouldn't say he's the dominant figure of the past 10-15 years. craggs, hammell and lasley have been stalwarts during a relatively very succesful period for us and even though they all left the club but like phil i think it says a lot for them they chose to come back. except from the blip under malpas the club has been in excellent shape since we came out of admin and in years to come i'm sure the euro trips, cis cup final and semi's, top six finishes and pretty much ending our hodoo's at tannadice, easter road, tynecastle and pittodrie will all be fondly remembered and the players at the forefront of people's minds will be craggs, hammell, lasley, reynolds, phil, clarky and the kaiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Terry Butcher is one of the most important Motherwell figures in my lifetime. Absolutely dragged us through our toughest period on his own to the point where he was even driving the bus for the youth team. Christ knows where we'd be now if it wasnt for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Faddy was a great player, but did nothing of great note, one of my hero's but in no way a motherwell legend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Stand Screamer Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 I think it's an age thing. Like East Stand Al my old chumbalero said further up, it's perhaps how we perceive these guys now compared with how we used to. As old farts, it's difficult to hero worship someone like Murphy, for instance, or Humphrey, cos, well, they're just boys themselves, so it's a weird feeling, and even if they got us to a final or won us a cup, we might admire them, or praise them, or have respect for them as a footballer, but would we call them "legends"? Who knows. Someone like Stevie Kirk or Dougie Arnott are good examples of this... I think everyone would agree the guys are Well Legends, and we can say why - cos they won us the Scottish Cup, and, frankly, everyone in that team are legends for it, but those are the personalities. But we've been to semi's since then, we've played more in Europe than ever before, and progressed quite far (for us). Jamie Murphy is our top European player... is he a legend? Not to me, but to my son he is. So, perhaps us old farts just don't have legends anymore. Leave them to the young! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I think club legends only come around once every generation or so, my legends were from the Wark, Pettigrew era and some before that as well. As an exile in Australia I do not get the chance to see the "new" legends of Fir Park. Every generation will have their heros and Legends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I agree that Butch is now a 'well legend, did a decent job under extremely difficult circumstances. Was sad to see him go, even moreso after a year with MM at the helm. This legend thing (with regard to players) is for kids though, we've all got our own favourites from our own era and those memories will stay with us. I was 15 when we won the cup, that was my time and I watched the game with my Grandfather. Did he have any heroes that day? No, he was still talking about '52. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 a hero and a legend aren't the same thing. i think steven gerrard is an overated, despicable fanny but i can also recognise that he is a liverpool fc legend. a legend for me is someone who is synonymous with the story of the club. names like mcfadyen, ferguson, ferrier and stevenson still resonate from 70-80 years ago. the same can be said for the 52 cup side, the ancell babes, there are names from the 70s and 80s that i never seen play but pop up all the time and are familiar to me: pettigrew, wark, gahgan, forsyth, graham just being a few. i don't think it's very likely that if the 00s pop up over a few pints in 2040 the consenus is going to "nae stand outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 a hero and a legend aren't the same thing. i think steven gerrard is an overated, despicable fanny but i can also recognise that he is a liverpool fc legend. a legend for me is someone who is synonymous with the story of the club. names like mcfadyen, ferguson, ferrier and stevenson still resonate from 70-80 years ago. the same can be said for the 52 cup side, the ancell babes, there are names from the 70s and 80s that i never seen play but pop up all the time and are familiar to me: pettigrew, wark, gahgan, forsyth, graham just being a few. i don't think it's very likely that if the 00s pop up over a few pints in 2040 the consenus is going to "nae stand outs. Thats a bit harsh mate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor_h Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Got to agree - a hero, a legend and an inspirational figure are very different and then again it depends on your definition of each. Terry Butcher is not a legend, maybe if your pushing it a "hero" because he was the backbone of a very difficult time and one that wont be forgotten. By using that definition, does that mean Mark McGhee is the same? He managed us extremely well through the most difficult time in the clubs history (too young to know for sure but dont think anything even comes close to when uncle phil died) but does this make him a hero or legend? Although my favourite player when he was here, I dont know if i would classify McFadden a legend. Maybe i will if he does eventually come back at some stage in his career. I can only praise him in the way he speaks about motherwell and this sets him apart from the rest and for this reason i would stay he is a "hero". Its like he is genuinely thankful for what we did for him and I hope Mark Reynolds will turn out to be the same. We can see in the papers its too much about money nowadays to have legends the way we used to ie guys who spend their career at one team, etc. We have to appreciate that it probably will never happen again at Motherwell. But when the players show us some respect then they have the makings of at least being a "hero". I think the last person i would say is a legend is Phil. I had always thought he would have ended up a coach or stayed with us in some respect after he hung up his boots. I think Craigan might be the same. On the other hand, I do not class Davie Cooper a Motherwell legend. First and foremost, he was a Rangers player and it angers me that we have a stand named after him when so many other players did so much more for the club than Cooper. I am too young to remember but from hearing people speak about him, I know how much of a fantastic player he was and I am not disputing that. Naming a stand after him was a little premature. Im my opinion, it would have been like Celtic naming a stand after Phil before we had a chance to do anything when they classify him as a motherwell player first (the pic on their scorebords after he died was of him in a motherwell strip - which was a nice touch imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Hey Sailor agree with your last paragraph mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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