When Should The Club Speak Out

[Steve Diggle]

Couple of threads have touched on this over the last couple of weeks.

 

Firstly - Poor Refereeing Decisions. Some of us would like to see Broonie getting beasted in and showing our disgust at general incompitence or game changing decisions. On the other hand some of us see that moaning won't change anything so there is no point in raising the issue.

 

Secondly - stuff like the current scotland situation. Broonie was a previous Scotland manager and hated when someone told him who to pick and a few think that it's sporting and respectful that he has this approach. Some, though think that when it's due - and particularly now with the currenr faroes squad debacle - we're due a bit of recognition.

 

Me - I'd like to see a bit more oomph about refereeing decisions poor saunders has suffered more than most this year in game changing decisions in 2-1 reverses. i don't advocate the lenny the Lion apprach - but somewhere a bit further than where we are - all warm. cuddly and accepting - would be good. I imagine Broonie has his own way and methods of getting his point of view across (I'd imagine he's a pissed as the fans. . . . surely?).

 

Also - wrt the squads - i understand Craig's point, however I would say that he's a Motherwell man now and not an SFA / Scotland employee - and if Peter Houston can raise the stock of his haddies then I believe we should have some form of comment on our boys.

 

Reynolds in the International set-up could raise his stock in the short time he has left here.

 

What's yer thoughts fellow Steelmen?

[steelboy]

with stuff like the saunders offside decision i don't think there's much to be said, you either accept it or accuse the linesman of cheating. i don't think the linesman was cheating on saturday he just made a bad decision, if you can't accept that then there's not really much point in playing the game. however i would hope that craig would be mentioning it off the record to the monday press to get it brought up today and maybe putting in a wee call to his pals at sportscene to get the two late tackles highlighted.

 

single decisions are one thing, trends over a longer period are another. we should be asking the sfa in private about criag thomson's willingnes to allow defenders to manhandle our players and dougie mcdonald's distribution of cards in motherwell games. if the answer isn't satisfactory then we should go public as these are things that have been fucking us over for years.

 

we should be screaming blue murder about the timekeeping. the game didn't last 90 minutes, there's no judgement involved there we were just fucked over.

[milo]

Totally agree with both Diggle and Steelboy. Surely somebody has to say something?

[David]

with stuff like the saunders offside decision i don't think there's much to be said, you either accept it or accuse the linesman of cheating.

Or you can raise the issue that the quality of our officials is shocking.

 

The very fact that they face a panel of their pals when they do fuck up is a total joke.

[fatcalf]

Missed the chance, anyone who complains now will be accused of jumping on Lennon's bandwagon

[milo]

Missed the chance, anyone who complains now will be accused of jumping on Lennon's bandwagon

 

I'm not so sure. Would it not (hopefully) draw attention to the fact that smaller clubs are continually the victims of shocking officiating and noone seems to care? I think the only ones who couldn't see the irony in Lennon/Celtics moaning were the moaners themselves!

[David]

Missed the chance, anyone who complains now will be accused of jumping on Lennon's bandwagon

Fuck Lennon and his bandwagon.

 

Complaining about shoddy officiating isn't exclusive to Celtic.

 

Maybe if more clubs were vocal it would help to point out that Celtic have been the victim of shoddy officiating and nothing more, just like the rest of us.

[steelboy]

Or you can raise the issue that the quality of our officials is shocking.

 

what does that achieve?

[Lobey_Dosser]

While I appreciate Brown's position as an ex-Scotland manager, I think he will be doing Mark Reynolds and the club a disservice if he doesn't speak out this week.

[Spiderpig]

Or you can raise the issue that the quality of our officials is shocking.

 

The very fact that they face a panel of their pals when they do fuck up is a total joke.

 

While the quality of referreeing on show was shocking we cant escape the fact that we lost because Craigan made a C**t of it twice allowing Riordan to score, and Gow headed wide from 2 yards out !!!

We are creating chances and by all accounts from people who were at the game we we the better side, so lets concentrate on the football and not get sucked in to the conspiracy theories coming from Parkhead. Craig Brown is too much of a gentelman to complain, just leave that to that Rabid wee ginger Pr**K, Lennon

[siebsbarmyarmy]

While I appreciate Brown's position as an ex-Scotland manager, I think he will be doing Mark Reynolds and the club a disservice if he doesn't speak out this week.

 

I agree 100% with this! Surely he has to self promote our players! Even if he doesn't want to then Boyle or Knox should be saying something! An international callup could add a few £'s to the value of our players!

[David]

We are creating chances and by all accounts from people who were at the game we we the better side, so lets concentrate on the football and not get sucked in to the conspiracy theories coming from Parkhead.

What has shoddy officiating got to do with conspiracy theories?

 

I haven't seen anyone on here mention conspiracies.

[weeyin]

Speak out? Or speak to the appropriate people?

 

Venting to the media might make you feel better, but it doesn't achieve much. Brown is part of the fabric of Scottish football and who knows what he says to his many connections to officialdom behind the scenes.

[David]

Brown is part of the fabric of Scottish football and who knows what he says to his many connections to officialdom behind the scenes.

Well, let's hope that at least a couple of his many connections actually does something about it then, eh?

 

So far we've had fuck all.

[Steve Diggle]

Speak out? Or speak to the appropriate people?

 

Venting to the media might make you feel better, but it doesn't achieve much. Brown is part of the fabric of Scottish football and who knows what he says to his many connections to officialdom behind the scenes.

 

That's very true and I know that he has a way of working in reality that has a wee bit more teeth than his public persona would suggest and there's more going on with Brown behind the scenes that we see. This allegedly includes how he came into this job in the first place. (However i digress)

 

In saying that and accepting that then theres nothing to stop him doing both. he's a master of diplomacy - why can't he say something measured or carefully considered to the media while pulling some strings in the background.

 

One of the best ways of applying pressure on levein is throwing the item out there for the press to discuss. To say that it isn't a tool at his disposal or that it has zero benefit is in my opinion incorrect.

 

The speccy Jambo c**t will probably storm off in the huff - but at least the question could be asked of the idiot.

[Spiderpig]

What has shoddy officiating got to do with conspiracy theories?

 

I haven't seen anyone on here mention conspiracies.

 

 

The point i was trying to make was forget about referee's and bad decisions they even themselves out over the season, or at least they should

[CoF]

In saying that and accepting that then theres nothing to stop him doing both. he's a master of diplomacy - why can't he say something measured or carefully considered to the media while pulling some strings in the background.

 

I think the best way to address the subject in an interview is to acknowledge the fact that refs are doing an difficult job and mistakes will be made unless they are given more assistance. I know he's mentioned it a few times in interviews but he seems to be shying away from it all together these days. It's a good way to raise the point, recognise that they've fucked up, but without attacking them directly.

 

To me, answering like that is about an honest answer as you can get. I personally don't think refs are biased, they are clearly in over their heads. Whether it's because refs are getting shiter or the games are getting harder to referee I don't know.

 

Doesn't matter anyway, it'll achieve nothing no matter how it's addressed.

[weeyin]

In saying that and accepting that then theres nothing to stop him doing both. he's a master of diplomacy - why can't he say something measured or carefully considered to the media while pulling some strings in the background.

That's exactly what he did, though. His comment about the offside goal was "I don’t want to say anything about that but you will all see it and you can judge for yourself". Measured and diplomatic.

[Pepper]

When teams benefit from bad/dodgy decisions you never hear a peep from that teams manager or fans, it's only when things go against your own team that folk are suddenly up in arms. The old excuse "it evens out over the season" is a load of betty swallocks imo. What we need is honesty from both sides. If both Calderwood and Broon had come out and said the offside was a terrible decision then maybe the powers that be would be forced to take notice. But we all know that's never gonna happen. How can we expect the officials to improve when it's obvious we're quite happy to accept their shortcomings when it suits us?

[Tweed]

While I appreciate Brown's position as an ex-Scotland manager, I think he will be doing Mark Reynolds and the club a disservice if he doesn't speak out this week.

 

Not often I completely disagree with you but Levein is the Scotland manager and we have to assume he is doing his homework on every Scottish player. He has got to be 100% comfortable with the squad he picks even if you and me thinks its a nonsense. If he picks the wrong team he will die on his own sword. I fully agree he is wrong but I think Craig Brown is 100% right not to intervene. If Levein doesn't like Reynolds then whilst disappointing for Reynolds its his call.

 

 

Speak out? Or speak to the appropriate people?

 

Venting to the media might make you feel better, but it doesn't achieve much. Brown is part of the fabric of Scottish football and who knows what he says to his many connections to officialdom behind the scenes.

 

I think raising things with the referee politely or through Dallas without the media demanding updates every day is the way to go. I think Brown is more coy than he gets credit for and I am sure he is doing this. I read a bit in the paper where Danny Lennon said the SFA thanked them for sending tapes where they felt the official could have done better and using them for training. Absolutely calls like the Saunders one on Saturday or the Forbes one v Rangers last year are incomprehensible but I am absolutely sure that referees and linesman are honest if not particularly good. Respect is the way forward but it needs to be two way.

[fatcalf]

I'm not so sure. Would it not (hopefully) draw attention to the fact that smaller clubs are continually the victims of shocking officiating and noone seems to care? I think the only ones who couldn't see the irony in Lennon/Celtics moaning were the moaners themselves!

We need the meedja to run the story and they're not interested. You're right of course but fact remains no-one listens to us but ourselves.

 

Fuck Lennon and his bandwagon.

 

Complaining about shoddy officiating isn't exclusive to Celtic.

 

Maybe if more clubs were vocal it would help to point out that Celtic have been the victim of shoddy officiating and nothing more, just like the rest of us.

 

As above, how can we be vocal if the press won't take it up. We've been banging our heads against brick walls for years over dodgy decisions, the press over-reaction now is solely because it's an Old Firm manager taking up the cudgel.

[SteelmaninOZ]

Looks like the refs are making mistakes in the USA as well...

David Beckham has uncharacteristically lashed out at a referee in an MLS playoff game as Los Angeles Galaxy team was sent tumbling out of contention for the title.

 

After Marvin Chavez scored for FC Dallas in the 73rd minute of the match, Beckham flared up over what he considered an uncalled offside.

 

The usually placid Beckham had his face in close proximity to the referee and gesticulated angrily, and was booked.

 

The English superstar has often been accused of indifference toward his US team's matches but he certainly showed he cared on this occasion.

 

Dallas will now face Colorado in the MLS final

 

Los Angeles lost the match 3-0 and FC Dallas will play Colorado in the MLS Cup final.

 

Maybe haggischomper can find a video of it and if the FC Dallas player was offside..a wee bit like the Hibs game

[texanwellfan]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned but the only way it will get better is with technology, video replays etc. Doesn't have to get like american football but FFS it's obvious that the officials need help. I think most people would agree that they are not biased just that they make mistakes. So moaining and bitching to SFA or whoever will do no good becuase they have no way of stopping the officials from making mistakes. I think the game could be allowed to flow and any crucial incedents could be very quickly reviewd as the game went on and within seconds a word in the refs ear piece could instruct him as to the correct call. All beint a few seconds late. Worth a few seconds to get the right call especially nowadays when there could be so much money at stake...............................

or alternatively we could keep track of how many mistakes the officials make AND THE PLAYERS and only bitch of the ref makes more mistakes than the players. That would probably do away with 99% of the bitching :-)

[texanwellfan]

Prize to the person who correctly identifies the exact number of spelling mistakes I made in that last post :-)

 

Prize: free Barrel of beer. You just have to pick it up on your way by my house :-)

[Kmcalpin]

I'm with Fatcalf on this - a decision is not controversial unless the OF are involved. There's been the odd snippet about his perfomance last Saturday buts all. The media simply aren't interested in most clubs outside of the gruesome twosome.