Scottish Fitba

[Brazilian]

Seem to recall reading somewhere that the Hearts owner wasn't going to agree to a 10 team SPL unless the money was split more evenly.

 

With SPL delegates just having been flown over to Lithuania to have a chat with this guy

 

i get the impression that there's maybe been a few sweetners chucked his way to get him to change his mind and not rock the mould firm boat.

 

where did the bit in bold come from?

[Ian-in-Oz]

Pretty sure it was in the Daily Rancid will try & find a link

 

Found it.

 

Doncaster and SPL chairman Ralph Topping travelled to Kaunas and met Romanov and Tynecastle director Sergejus Fedotovas this morning.

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl-...86908-22849667/

[Busta Nut]

Our game is in dire need of a shake up. for the grass roots up.

Canny say I'll stop going but I struggle to get excited about the fitba the now as it is.

 

I think the first thing we really need to do is stop comparing our game to anyone else's. Our country is prolly one of the smallest in Europe. If a comparison work to another country size wise, throw it in, but there will be other factors that will differ.

 

I seriously want a structure that has relegation from/ Promotion to, the bottom football league division

 

Would love a 14 team league, mainly because I love the split, Keeps thing interesting for a mid table team like us (usually)

 

I would then like to see a divison of 16, then start the pyramid system, regionalised 3rd tier two leages of 10 then working it's way from there.

[dundeesteelman]

With SPL delegates just having been flown over to Lithuania to have a chat with this guy

 

 

Where did the money come for this little jaunt??

Have they not heard of video confrencing???!!

[Steve Diggle]

how did it fail miserably?

 

we keep on hearing that it was changed due to "negative football" ect but that's a load of made up pish which seems to have been accepted as fact. it changed from 10 to 12 because that was part of the agreement with the sfl to allow the spl to be formed in the first place, the decision to expand to 12 was made before the ten team spl even kicked a ball.

 

thinking back i can't remember any overly negative teams in that period.certainly no one along the lines of accies. looking at wiki the first spl season with ten teams had 2.61 goals per game and last season had 2.57, not much difference at all.

 

I remember the move from the old 1st Div to the Premier League. There were technically meaningless game in the old 1st - however meaningful doesn't necessarily mean entertaining. Very quickly the focus went from winning the game to trying desperately not to lose - and it was even worse then because the backpass rule hadn't been brought in (goalie could lift it and wander around the box for a wee while - Jambos and Sheep were experts). Teams were playing any type of football necessary to stay in the league.

 

Looking at the goals scored per game isn't necessarily a barometer of entertainment level.

 

Entertainment level is how good the football is.

 

A step back to 10 and that very claustrophobic environment where teams shit themselves to drop a point - isny a good thing. Plus the games come round all that quicker.

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

I remember the move from the old 1st Div to the Premier League. There were technically meaningless game in the old 1st - however meaningful doesn't necessarily mean entertaining. Very quickly the focus went from winning the game to trying desperately not to lose - and it was even worse then because the backpass rule hadn't been brought in (goalie could lift it and wander around the box for a wee while - Jambos and Sheep were experts). Teams were playing any type of football necessary to stay in the league.

 

Looking at the goals scored per game isn't necessarily a barometer of entertainment level.

 

Entertainment level is how good the football is.

 

A step back to 10 and that very claustrophobic environment where teams shit themselves to drop a point - isny a good thing. Plus the games come round all that quicker.

 

 

Thing is Steve the new set up will make sure we will return to this boring league.

 

Picture the scene, your the St Mirren manager. You're sitting 7th in the top division out of 10 and your chairman is demanding that you stay in the league of your out of a job. So your going to have to make sure your hard to beat by sitting back and defending constantly.

The way the league is working out this year the 6th and possibly the 5th placed team are being dragged into this relegation fight as well. So say thats about 4 teams who are desperately trying to stay in the league so they can keep the payments from their 6 odd games with the old scum.

 

So you will have more pointless games, more boring football and more fans leaving because the team in 6th has 11 men behind the ball and it gets more boring.

 

The whole "their will be no meaningless games" rubbish doesnt work

[Shotts Well Fan]

Hilarious article in the Sun today. Eddie Thompson saying his U turn was for the benefit of Scottish football and accepting he will get less money and Hamilton agreeing to this to help all the clubs in the lower divisons!!!!! So we will get less money for a more boring league with less fans!!! So everything is fine and dandy and the future is bright

 

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/ho...948/U-Turn.html

 

Absolutely fucking senseless.

[Steve Diggle]

Hilarious article in the Sun today. Eddie Thompson saying his U turn was for the benefit of Scottish football and accepting he will get less money and Hamilton agreeing to this to help all the clubs in the lower divisons!!!!! So we will get less money for a more boring league with less fans!!! So everything is fine and dandy and the future is bright

 

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/ho...948/U-Turn.html

 

Absolutely fucking senseless.

 

Stevie Wonder just went by my window on a bike shouting "They've been bought!, They've been bought ! . . . . allegedly"

 

I think I might be agreeing with him

[fatcalf]

Hilarious article in the Sun today. Eddie Thompson saying his U turn was for the benefit of Scottish football and accepting he will get less money and Hamilton agreeing to this to help all the clubs in the lower divisons!!!!! So we will get less money for a more boring league with less fans!!! So everything is fine and dandy and the future is bright

 

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/ho...948/U-Turn.html

 

Absolutely fucking senseless.

 

To help the clubs in the lower leagues just go back to 2 x 18 and spread the money about equally.

[Wellfan1984]

That's the thing. How are clubs like Stirling Albion who are far to good for the current Second Division going to ever progress now, when it is obvious to see they are in no way shape or form good enough for the current First Division when the current First Division gets all this extra money. Same for Ayr United, Cowdenbeath etc. who will find themselves left behind with this new proposal.

 

So what, after 10-12 years of failure are we going to decide to bring the other 20 clubs into the fold too?

[Steve Diggle]

A lot of things have changed over the course of this.

 

We've seen laid bare the internal motivation for decision making within the SPL and it's pretty depressing.

 

JB tried some damage limitation - but damage was done within our own club as part of the steering committee.

 

The lack of consultation with the fans (as source of finance #1) and the total fuckin disregard for views that they have since expressed through several avenues has been shocking - in preference for TV (source of finance #2).

 

the end result?

 

I think a lot of folk are getting to the point that they are beginning to question the support they offer their clubs and in many cases they've decided to chuck it. many actually want to see this fail and where before they'd be concerned for the success of a club or the game in general they'd be quite happy to see the whole thing fold like a pack of cards.

 

Would I be as bothered if our club folded now in the same way I was when we went in to admin? Unfortunately no I honestly wouldn't.

 

Fuck the lot of them!

[johnstone]

Maybe this needs to happen. Then when all the clubs go to the wall we can all start again on a blank canvas!

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

A lot of things have changed over the course of this.

 

We've seen laid bare the internal motivation for decision making within the SPL and it's pretty depressing.

 

JB tried some damage limitation - but damage was done within our own club as part of the steering committee.

 

The lack of consultation with the fans (as source of finance #1) and the total fuckin disregard for views that they have since expressed through several avenues has been shocking - in preference for TV (source of finance #2).

 

the end result?

 

I think a lot of folk are getting to the point that they are beginning to question the support they offer their clubs and in many cases they've decided to chuck it. many actually want to see this fail and where before they'd be concerned for the success of a club or the game in general they'd be quite happy to see the whole thing fold like a pack of cards.

 

Would I be as bothered if our club folded now in the same way I was when we went in to admin? Unfortunately no I honestly wouldn't.

 

Fuck the lot of them!

 

 

100% agree

im the same now, im more concerned with following my local american football team that the state of our game haha

 

it is a joke, a farce that we haven't been consulted i know they say they spoke to supporters trusts but not everyone is a member.

I filled out the form on the SFA website for my word and only one thing that has been suggested i agree with which is promotion/relegation play offs

 

Wheres the pyramid system for the juniors?

wheres the top league of 14 i want with playoffs as well for european places

 

whole pile of shit this country

[Jonesy]

Why not combine the ideas of a weekend boycott and a protest at Hampden and arrange it for a weekend when Queens Park are at home. At least they are a team that stick to their fucking principles.

 

Queens Park v East Stirling or something with a few thousand there made up of fans for all SPL teams with some sort of protest before and after the game.

[jo.mcr]

read on the bbc that the new 10 league 12 league proposal will require a vote of 10-2, i might be wrong here but previously hadnt the voting to be 11-1 to be successful?

 

if this is the case then the 11-1 was the barrier for the playoff for the league title as both old firm clubs were against it, now if it is 10-2 then it doesnt matter what the old firm want...?

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

Or we could just go watch Queens Park,

 

We know they wont fold to the old scum greeting and spitting their dummy out

[Shotts Well Fan]

read on the bbc that the new 10 league 12 league proposal will require a vote of 10-2, i might be wrong here but previously hadnt the voting to be 11-1 to be successful?

 

if this is the case then the 11-1 was the barrier for the playoff for the league title as both old firm clubs were against it, now if it is 10-2 then it doesnt matter what the old firm want...?

 

10-2 is required when changing league format

11-1 is required when Commercial arrangement are changed

[The_Craig]

That's the thing. How are clubs like Stirling Albion who are far to good for the current Second Division going to ever progress now, when it is obvious to see they are in no way shape or form good enough for the current First Division when the current First Division gets all this extra money. Same for Ayr United, Cowdenbeath etc. who will find themselves left behind with this new proposal.

 

So what, after 10-12 years of failure are we going to decide to bring the other 20 clubs into the fold too?

 

Was that not the reason for creating the SPL in the first place? For the top team to control their own destiny.

 

When we ask the other 20 teams in Scottish football to join the 'SPL' setup, the SFL would be redundant. Why not prempt it and get shot of the SPL now.

 

As mentioned earlier, I wouldn't stop going to the football when I can get to it but I wouldn't get excited about it. I'm feeling like that the now anyway...

 

BUt the powers that be aren't interested in what our opinions are. Fuck them!

[Welldaft Mk1]

It's pretty obvious from your posts that you can't quite comprehend people chucking (and that's not a dig, that's your position) but I think you have respect that people just don't want to be a part of it, rather than trying to claim it's some sort of agenda to find excuses to chuck it.

 

A very well put post Jay. I don't pretend to be better than any other Motherwell fan and if my comments come across that way - that was not my intention. Not that you were stating for a fact that was the case.

 

Of course I understand the anger and the viewpoint of all those who are vehemently opposed to this proposed top 10 set up. I just do not know where Motherwell as a club are going to turn too in order to protect their future and those who continue to support the club. Sadly with attendances as they are, if there is a viable alternative that will protect and perhaps even increase TV revenue, then I understand why the club may go for this option moving forward. In turn they may even be able to reduce ticket costs in order to attract some fans back.

 

Either way it does depress me to see fans such as yourself threatening to walk away. We have very few die hard fans as it is, so to lose a handful or more will be a damn shame.

[SuperCC]

Was that not the reason for creating the SPL in the first place? For the top team to control their own destiny.

 

When we ask the other 20 teams in Scottish football to join the 'SPL' setup, the SFL would be redundant. Why not prempt it and get shot of the SPL now.

 

As mentioned earlier, I wouldn't stop going to the football when I can get to it but I wouldn't get excited about it. I'm feeling like that the now anyway...

 

BUt the powers that be aren't interested in what our opinions are. Fuck them!

 

Exactly what now needs to happen - ditch the SPL & SFL & SJFL and create one organisation with the strategic aims of administrating Scottish football AND improving Scottish football at all levels.

[bogsideloyal]

All of the below IMO

 

Too many people on here aren’t looking at the bigger picture.

 

A 16/18/20 team league = less old firm derbies and less Edinburgh derbies

Less old firm derbies and Edinburgh derbies = less tv money

 

1 home game vs Hibs/Hearts/Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen and 1 home game vs Ross County/Hamilton/St Mirren/ St Johnstone/Dunfermline, as opposed to 2 home games vs Hibs/Hearts/Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen = average attendances would drop

 

Falling attendances and less tv money = less money = poorer quality of player

 

Poorer quality of player = even less people turn up and even less money for tv deal

 

And so on.

 

A 16/18/20 team league would lead to a vicious cycle.

 

I’m not saying that a 10 team league is going to see people flocking back to football, sky desperate to get a tv deal done, better atmosphere and a better quality on the pitch. But it is certainly a lot better an idea than anything anyone else anyone has come up with, hence the reason it looks like all SPL chairmen are going to give it the green light. If you think a 10 team league would be boring playing the same teams all the time, it wouldn’t be half as boring as having part time teams in the top flight. People should also remember we are a small country of less than 5 million people (most of which support 1 of the old firm), we aren’t big enough to sustain a 16/18/20 team top flight. Some people should also stop forever comparing our league to the English league; remember that they have 10x our population and crazy amounts of money to throw about (Wayne Bridge 90k a week!!) What we have had in Scottish football the last 10 – 12 years is as good as it’s ever going to get, people should accept this and stop living in a fantasy world where fans are going to come back in a 16/18/20 team league when we’re playing home to Ross County.

 

Haven’t average attendances increased in Scotland since the SPL was started? I read somewhere that they have, weather thats accurate or not, I don't know.

 

Personally, I don’t really care what size of league we play in. I’ll still be at Fir Park to support my team

[Steve Diggle]

All of the below IMO

 

Too many people on here aren’t looking at the bigger picture.

 

A 16/18/20 team league = less old firm derbies and less Edinburgh derbies

Less old firm derbies and Edinburgh derbies = less tv money

 

1 home game vs Hibs/Hearts/Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen and 1 home game vs Ross County/Hamilton/St Mirren/ St Johnstone/Dunfermline, as opposed to 2 home games vs Hibs/Hearts/Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen = average attendances would drop

 

Falling attendances and less tv money = less money = poorer quality of player

 

Poorer quality of player = even less people turn up and even less money for tv deal

 

And so on.

 

A 16/18/20 team league would lead to a vicious cycle.

 

I’m not saying that a 10 team league is going to see people flocking back to football, sky desperate to get a tv deal done, better atmosphere and a better quality on the pitch. But it is certainly a lot better an idea than anything anyone else anyone has come up with, hence the reason it looks like all SPL chairmen are going to give it the green light. If you think a 10 team league would be boring playing the same teams all the time, it wouldn’t be half as boring as having part time teams in the top flight. People should also remember we are a small country of less than 5 million people (most of which support 1 of the old firm), we aren’t big enough to sustain a 16/18/20 team top flight. Some people should also stop forever comparing our league to the English league; remember that they have 10x our population and crazy amounts of money to throw about (Wayne Bridge 90k a week!!) What we have had in Scottish football the last 10 – 12 years is as good as it’s ever going to get, people should accept this and stop living in a fantasy world where fans are going to come back in a 16/18/20 team league when we’re playing home to Ross County.

 

Haven’t average attendances increased in Scotland since the SPL was started? I read somewhere that they have, weather thats accurate or not, I don't know.

 

Personally, I don’t really care what size of league we play in. I’ll still be at Fir Park to support my team

 

Good post Mr Doncaster.

 

obviously you have a problem with understanding what's been expressed.

 

We acknowledge the points you make but don't accept that sookin sky and the collective old firm boaby is the way ahead.

 

good luck with your job

[Special aka]

....................... weekend boycott.................

 

was thinking about that yesterday. Empty seats is the Loudest Voice the fans have in their armour. Uniting the fans will prove difficult though.

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

I love my Doncaster!

 

Im going to employ him to run my life

 

I love every decision he has ever made!

 

 

fucking spekky arsehole get the old scums boaby oot yer arse

[Shotts Well Fan]

All of the below IMO

 

Too many people on here aren't looking at the bigger picture.

 

A 16/18/20 team league = less old firm derbies and less Edinburgh derbies

Less old firm derbies and Edinburgh derbies = less tv money

 

1 home game vs Hibs/Hearts/Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen and 1 home game vs Ross County/Hamilton/St Mirren/ St Johnstone/Dunfermline, as opposed to 2 home games vs Hibs/Hearts/Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen = average attendances would drop

 

Falling attendances and less tv money = less money = poorer quality of player

 

Poorer quality of player = even less people turn up and even less money for tv deal

 

And so on.

 

A 16/18/20 team league would lead to a vicious cycle.

 

I'm not saying that a 10 team league is going to see people flocking back to football, sky desperate to get a tv deal done, better atmosphere and a better quality on the pitch. But it is certainly a lot better an idea than anything anyone else anyone has come up with, hence the reason it looks like all SPL chairmen are going to give it the green light. If you think a 10 team league would be boring playing the same teams all the time, it wouldn't be half as boring as having part time teams in the top flight. People should also remember we are a small country of less than 5 million people (most of which support 1 of the old firm), we aren't big enough to sustain a 16/18/20 team top flight. Some people should also stop forever comparing our league to the English league; remember that they have 10x our population and crazy amounts of money to throw about (Wayne Bridge 90k a week!!) What we have had in Scottish football the last 10 – 12 years is as good as it's ever going to get, people should accept this and stop living in a fantasy world where fans are going to come back in a 16/18/20 team league when we're playing home to Ross County.

 

Haven't average attendances increased in Scotland since the SPL was started? I read somewhere that they have, weather thats accurate or not, I don't know.

 

Personally, I don't really care what size of league we play in. I'll still be at Fir Park to support my team

 

I have looked at the bigger picture and it does not work. We have tried the 10 team spl and it failed!!!! There was a reason for its failure - too many poor games where teams tried to avoid defeat and relegation. We buy/loan foreign/lower english league players on short term deals and money is pissed away out the club and spiral downwards continues.

 

Now here is my take. If you take the pressure of mangers to avoid relegation (i.e bigger league) they try to play more attractive football (and therefore attractive to fans). Teams may have more chance to win the league.They are not afraid to paly younger players and therefore these guys get a chance to develop and then become more saleable hence bringing money into the clubs again. Clubs start to invest in youth development.

 

My way is a long term solution admittedly but is IMHO better than the short term option being promoted by SKY/OF/Doncaster which "might" increase revenues in the near term but when Sky get fed up of broadcasting crap 0-0 games at empty stadiums the games a bogey anyway.