Scottish Fitba

[Yabba's Turd]

Not sure about his claim if it aint broke dont fix it. It certainly is "broke" and requires a major fix, but it's going to take more than reconstructing a piss poor league to do it.

It's not broke, it's skint AND broke

[weeyin]

I've papped up a few things, but I stuck a fairly complete article on my blog of my feelings.

 

thisGRAEME Blog.

If you think the Spanish National team is the death of football, I'm not sure you're qualified to comment on a solution to our woes

[gdalli10]

Motherwell Football Club today released the following update to supporters regarding the ongoing re-construction debate.

 

Speaking collectively, the Board at Motherwell FC said, “We want to take the opportunity to update Motherwell fans on the issue of league re-construction, following Monday’s meeting at the SPL.

 

“Firstly, we must emphasise that, despite what is being reported in the media, Motherwell Football Club has neither agreed to nor voted for any restructure proposal. Our position has been to participate fully in the debate and listen to the various arguments being put forward. We have made it clear that we are strongly in favour of change which makes for all of Scottish football.

 

“We are acutely aware of the strong media and fan support for a top league of 14. This has been discounted by a number of clubs due to lack of remaining funding for a second league and potential for a number of meaningless games following a split after 26 games. We do agree that proper funding for a second league is key to moving the game forward.

 

“We are therefore potentially faced with a stark choice – vote for the 10 and 12 league structure or vote to stay as we are. Our position has been consistent throughout the many months of discussions – we would prefer a larger top league but are willing to discuss and consider alternative structures favoured by other clubs.

 

“Turning to the specific proposal being discussed, we along with other clubs have continued to state that we are unhappy with certain aspects of what is being proposed.

 

“We are supportive of a number of the proposed changes, including an early July start date and winter break. As Neil Doncaster stated on Monday, he has been asked to further develop a number of areas and return to the clubs with a revised document. Part of this process is focusing on a proper financial safety net for relegated clubs.

 

“Once that document is received, the Board of Directors will fully consider the revised proposal and make a decision. This has been our position throughout many months of discussion and it did not change in any way during Monday’s meeting.

 

“Now that the overall position with the proposal is clearer, we are keen to engage fully with our fans and encourage full and frank discussion. Leeann Dempster has arranged, after requesting Supporters Trust assistance, an open fans forum for this coming Monday and I would encourage you to attend.

 

“Thank you for your continued support.”

[Guest]

If you think the Spanish National team is the death of football, I'm not sure you're qualified to comment on a solution to our woes

 

Bahaha, I was bored watching them and generally bored by the world cup. Thanks for reading though.

[mjw]

Bahaha, I was bored watching them and generally bored by the world cup. Thanks for reading though.

 

I went to Hampden when Scotland played them and they were a joy to watch and well worth the entance fee to see football being played the way it should be.

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ell/9368151.stm

[andybug]

With recent happenings in football I am ultra cynical of any statements from any boardroom and it may be just me but is this the start of the 'buttering' up project that we will be subjected to get us to come round to a 10 or 12 team league?

 

 

Motherwell Football Club today released the following update to supporters regarding the ongoing re-construction debate.

 

Speaking collectively, the Board at Motherwell FC said, “We want to take the opportunity to update Motherwell fans on the issue of league re-construction, following Monday’s meeting at the SPL.

 

“Firstly, we must emphasise that, despite what is being reported in the media, Motherwell Football Club has neither agreed to nor voted for any restructure proposal. Our position has been to participate fully in the debate and listen to the various arguments being put forward. We have made it clear that we are strongly in favour of change which makes for all of Scottish football.

 

Open with a positive

 

“We are acutely aware of the strong media and fan support for a top league of 14. This has been discounted by a number of clubs due to lack of remaining funding for a second league and potential for a number of meaningless games following a split after 26 games. We do agree that proper funding for a second league is key to moving the game forward.

 

The SPL have totally dismissed our paying customers demands for a bigger league, and as a club we support the need for SPL2 and supporting relegated clubs financially so .....

 

“We are therefore potentially faced with a stark choice – vote for the 10 and 12 league structure or vote to stay as we are. Our position has been consistent throughout the many months of discussions – we would prefer a larger top league but are willing to discuss and consider alternative structures favoured by other clubs.

The best we can do is a 12 team league and SPL2

 

Turning to the specific proposal being discussed, we along with other clubs have continued to state that we are unhappy with certain aspects of what is being proposed.

 

“We are supportive of a number of the proposed changes, including an early July start date and winter break. As Neil Doncaster stated on Monday, he has been asked to further develop a number of areas and return to the clubs with a revised document. Part of this process is focusing on a proper financial safety net for relegated clubs.

 

“Once that document is received, the Board of Directors will fully consider the revised proposal and make a decision. This has been our position throughout many months of discussion and it did not change in any way during Monday’s meeting.

 

“Now that the overall position with the proposal is clearer, we are keen to engage fully with our fans and encourage full and frank discussion. Leeann Dempster has arranged, after requesting Supporters Trust assistance, an open fans forum for this coming Monday and I would encourage you to attend.

 

“Thank you for your continued support.”

[End with some positives <_>

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

With recent happenings in football I am ultra cynical of any statements from any boardroom and it may be just me but is this the start of the 'buttering' up project that we will be subjected to get us to come round to a 10 or 12 team league?

 

It does come accross as buttering up but the club are just looking after themself they cant do anything else

Just wish they would come out and say it

[Guest]

I went to Hampden when Scotland played them and they were a joy to watch and well worth the entance fee to see football being played the way it should be.

 

Ach I know, it was partially tongue in cheek and mainly that I loved Chile.

[TheLip69]

netherton

 

1. scotland already has better per capita football attendance than holland. 1 in 373 people attend top level matches in scotland, in the netherlands it's 1 in 849.

 

2. we had decent crowds during the ten team 90s so it can't have been that bad.

 

 

It wasn't that bad, it was a great league, we had teams going for it every week, relegation didn't matter that much because there wasn't the kind of TV money around that there is now. Most clubs survived onm their home gates, this was before all seater stadiums when Fir Park could cram 20,000 in for an OF match. The league died a death as soon as Sky TV began paying exorbitant amounts for television rights. Getting relegated meant losing your share of the TV money, so teams started playing with fear. That is what is killing the game, I firmly believe that had SKY's money came in at a time when we had an 18 team league we would be in a far better position than we are at present. Our league has no safety zone, there is no encouragement for clubs to try new things, to bring in youths, to build, and shape a team.

There is no money outside the SPL. SPL2 will only work if the SPL can ensure it is incorporated in any TV deal, just paying a club a parachute payment will ensure that club starts the next season at an advantage and make it all the more difficult for anyone other than the relegated club to come up out of SPL2 thereby making it even more of a closed shop.

[Orinoco]

the signing of a 34 year old experienced pro, and the loaning out of two of our younger players for them to get experience. Just goes to show that even a 12 team league is apparently no place (unless it's a last resort) to blood youngsters and give them a chance. I do wonder how this would be reversed in a 10 team league

[TheLip69]

It does come accross as buttering up but the club are just looking after themself they cant do anything else

Just wish they would come out and say it

 

They cant and they wont, it would have been a done deal by now if they hadn't realised the depth of ill feeling amongst the fans. So the clubs are all away back to soft soap the fans, their pet scribes will be writing up the 2 x 10 and spinning tales of doom and destruction for the 14, 16, and 18.

Trusts across the country will be setting up forums and in the end we'll have a 2 x 10.

 

My ideal 2 leagues would be 16 each, 30 games, 2 up, 2 down, third bottom in SPL1 goes into play off with 3rd, 4th, and 5th in SpL2.

That way we still have room for our bigger clubs to expand and develop.

Want a couple more home games to bring in the dough, make the League Cup home and away and play it on the spare Saturdays.

 

That will never happen, we're getting 2 x 10 and it's already been decided.

[Well_Jaggy]

there is to much bogging down of the number of teams in the league(s).

 

There are more important issues which need to be discussed first.

 

e.g.

The voting system in the SPL - its baws.

The %age distribution of TV revenue

The share of the gate reciepts

 

there are more which I am sure some of you will post.

 

number of teams of the league is not top priority.

[TheLip69]

the signing of a 34 year old experienced pro, and the loaning out of two of our younger players for them to get experience. Just goes to show that even a 12 team league is apparently no place (unless it's a last resort) to blood youngsters and give them a chance. I do wonder how this would be reversed in a 10 team league

 

It wont be, because this has nothing whatsoever to do with football.

It's about money. No-one at these meetings has any interest in the game, least of all Neil Doncaster, this is all about bank balances. If it was about the game at all we'd have an 18 team League tomorrow. This is about conning the public into believing they are delivering a new and exciting product when it's just the same old pish in a different wrapper.

[Andy_P]

there is to much bogging down of the number of teams in the league(s).

 

There are more important issues which need to be discussed first.

 

e.g.

The voting system in the SPL - its baws.

The %age distribution of TV revenue

The share of the gate reciepts

 

there are more which I am sure some of you will post.

 

number of teams of the league is not top priority.

Yeah, I'm thinking along similar lines too, in particular its the share of the gate receipts that interests me.

 

I think it was Doncaster himself who conceded when talking of "hoped for" increases in TV revenue that for every £1 of revenue taken in twice as much comes through gate receipts.

 

Clearly the bulk of that will be derived from the Old Firm. What percentage I don't know but I suspect it'll be hefty anyway.

 

They'll never agree to it to it but if gate money is the biggest earner for Scottish football then if we could impliment some strategy where gate-receipts were pooled and evenly split then that to me would do so much more than tinkering with the number of teams in the hope that it attracts TV money.

 

I still think there is merit in the level of prize money being greater the further you are up the table and the TV money could still cover that as it does currently. However if the gate money was split evenly the re-distribution of cash should allow for a more level playing field for all and give more chance of achieveing the competition they are seeking without the need to resort to relegation play-offs to again try to attract TV money. If the league is more competitive and the title race is no less of a two team procession who knows it even attract TV companies on the league's merits rather than saddling themselves with games involving diddy teams to allow them to get the 4 Old Firm games.

 

I could never see the Old Firm agreeing to anything which is going to loosen their grip but if they are genuinely interested in making the SPL the best it can be, they surely have to make some massive concessions to the rest of us. At the same time I could never see the SPL board proposing it for fear it could be the spark that pushes the Old Firm to pursue their exit from Scotland more aggressively.

 

But until those tricky questions are asked of the Old Firm we are skirting round the edges here and any change is only going to minimal.

[gilmour]

Seems our beautiful game is on its knees at the moment and the standard of the game has never been lower, with fans becoming totally dejected with the game and attendances and value for money at an all time low .

What would you do asides from league reconstruction as that seems to be in the hands of the OF and Sky.

 

Personally i dont think we look after the future supporters enough, let all kids in for £1 better than sitting halve empty, the noise will spur on the team and money can be made at the shop and pie stalls. (no brainer for me) You will also get a fair few full paying adults taking them along who wouldn't normally be there. Has to be better than the very random reduced kids prices. Make it regular and they will come regular, after all you're creating future supporters.

 

Bring in a safe standing section all seated HAS killed the atmosphere.

 

Allow alcahol to be served its more money for the club, why can i have a drink in hospitality but not as a regular supporter? Reasons are for crowd control, if there drunk dont let them in or dont serve them anymore!

Works at concerts, rugby and American football when it was at hampden.

 

Stop stupid killjoy overzealousness like bookings for taking a shirt off, or running to the crowd after scoring ffs let us be passionate.

 

Finally allow TV replays it would shut Niel Lennon up, as his pish is turning me off the game big big time.

 

If they want to act like Businesses ?, then treat us like the valuable assets we are rather than cash cows to be milked dry at every opportunity possible.

 

Just a few of my views but feel free to add or disagree.

Thanx

[weeyin]

Allow alcahol to be serverd

Cheersh

[gilmour]

Youre welcomes

[Guest]

Not wanting to pick it apart because I broadly agree, but 'stopping serving' folk when they're pished does not work at concerts or rugby

 

That said, equally stupid are the laws that govern licensing, given that its against the law to serve anyone that is drunk.

[Well-Made]

So quick question here, we're all busy talking about how it'll affect Motherwell FC etc.

 

See the first season this happens, especially if they opt to return to 2 x 10.

 

What happens to the poor sods that finish in the bottom 3 places of the 1st Division?

 

They stand to lose a lot more than any of the SPL Clubs.

 

This whole set up has to be looked at by everyone involved in the game. Not just those in the SPL as it will still need to be approved by the SFL, after all it's their clubs that will make up the most of SPL2.

 

It's also their clubs that will be placed into a regionalised divisions if it was all to go through.

 

Neil Doncaster can mump and moan about this all he wants but unless there is an agreement from all camps, no change is going to be made.

 

What will it really change for the likes of QOS, Ross County, Morton and any of the others that get left in there when it kicks in?

 

The only thing it changes is it makes it harder for them to get into the "big" league.

 

I have been sitting on here quietly looking at what everyone wants and listening to the pundits and apart from JB coming out and saying he wants to assurances on what a relegated club would get. I have heard nothing else to explain how any of this makes Scottish Football better for anyone outside the SPL.

 

They can turn around and say all they like about how this is to try and help create a bigger, stronger league in a few years time all they want.

The question is where's the finances coming from this?

If the top ten are going to be better off financially, how much more is there to filter down to the SPL2?

 

Where is this money going to come from? Are Sky really going to pay anymore than they are just now? They already get their 4 Old Firm games every season, so no reason there to pay out anymore. As for the Edinburgh towsome, by rights Sky should have them 4 times a season as well. It's just down to those clubs underachievemment if they don't. Those games will already be paid for with the current deal anyway.

 

So what's going to be new that Sky or any other TV company is going to be willing to pay more for.

 

They "may" pay something for the SPL2 but if they don't show 1st Division games just now, then not much chance of that happening.

 

SPL TV? We've been there before and it collapsed before it even got off the ground. If it did go ahead, it would be OF TV with a wee morsel for the rest of us thrown in. Footage for this will probably have to be bought from Sky\ESPN as well. If not, another reason for these companies not to raise the money they pay at present.

 

I just wish I had an answer to all of this but other than telling the OF to go and find somewhere else to play and let us find our own level, I can't.

 

The BBC could do a Football League show like they do with the lower divisions down South, but how much attraction would there be to stay tuned once your highlights were shown?

[Yoshi-1991]

So quick question here, we're all busy talking about how it'll affect Motherwell FC etc.

 

See the first season this happens, especially if they opt to return to 2 x 10.

 

What happens to the poor sods that finish in the bottom 3 places of the 1st Division?

 

They stand to lose a lot more than any of the SPL Clubs.

 

This whole set up has to be looked at by everyone involved in the game. Not just those in the SPL as it will still need to be approved by the SFL, after all it's their clubs that will make up the most of SPL2.

 

It's also their clubs that will be placed into a regionalised divisions if it was all to go through.

 

Neil Doncaster can mump and moan about this all he wants but unless there is an agreement from all camps, no change is going to be made.

 

What will it really change for the likes of QOS, Ross County, Morton and any of the others that get left in there when it kicks in?

 

The only thing it changes is it makes it harder for them to get into the "big" league.

 

I have been sitting on here quietly looking at what everyone wants and listening to the pundits and apart from JB coming out and saying he wants to assurances on what a relegated club would get. I have heard nothing else to explain how any of this makes Scottish Football better for anyone outside the SPL.

 

They can turn around and say all they like about how this is to try and help create a bigger, stronger league in a few years time all they want.

The question is where's the finances coming from this?

If the top ten are going to be better off financially, how much more is there to filter down to the SPL2?

 

Where is this money going to come from? Are Sky really going to pay anymore than they are just now? They already get their 4 Old Firm games every season, so no reason there to pay out anymore. As for the Edinburgh towsome, by rights Sky should have them 4 times a season as well. It's just down to those clubs underachievemment if they don't. Those games will already be paid for with the current deal anyway.

 

So what's going to be new that Sky or any other TV company is going to be willing to pay more for.

 

They "may" pay something for the SPL2 but if they don't show 1st Division games just now, then not much chance of that happening.

 

SPL TV? We've been there before and it collapsed before it even got off the ground. If it did go ahead, it would be OF TV with a wee morsel for the rest of us thrown in. Footage for this will probably have to be bought from Sky\ESPN as well. If not, another reason for these companies not to raise the money they pay at present.

I just wish I had an answer to all of this but other than telling the OF to go and find somewhere else to play and let us find our own level, I can't.

 

The BBC could do a Football League show like they do with the lower divisions down South, but how much attraction would there be to stay tuned once your highlights were shown?

 

they could make a deal with sky so that sky gets the pick of the games and spl tv can have what sky dont want ( in relation to live games).

[Well-Made]

So Sky take all the lucrative games. i.e. The Old Firm, Edinburgh Derbies, even the New Firm and relegation battles.

 

How does that encourage sponsorship and interest in SPL TV?

 

 

Sorry might be being a bit pedantic about this all but interested to hear thoughts. See if I can be persuaded otherwise.

[Guest]

I'm in two minds about it. Obviously, a deal with Sky is safer on the basis that even if the Scottish deal goes a bit tits, they can pay it from other parts of their, frankly terrifying, media.

 

At the same time, I'd really like to see a well put together product by the Scottish clubs. Take the coverage a bit further than standard well kennt faces talking absolute bollocks, provide actual analysis and have the whole thing run by the clubs. No money goes out the game with the exception of the start up costs and all the money comes back into the game through sponsorship/subscription costs etc. It is a much riskier set up though as...what if it bombs? It has to be of sufficient quality and then if it was, who knows the limits? Start getting other leagues broadcast on it, like the Bundesliga and start making money off other leagues? Last bit is pretty pipe-dream, but still.

 

Plus I might be able to get a job in the latter set up. Be nice.