Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 You know what, 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18 teams changes nothing. You can dress it up anyway you want, but the product will remain exactly the same, in fact potentially an 18 team league would only excacerbate the dominance of the 'Big Two'. Scottish football needs radically re-built from the bottom up. But what are the real issues? The argument that the dominance of the 'Big Two' detracts from the quility of the league may not ring true. Look at the EPL, only 3-4 teams can realistically win that league out of 20. That is the exact same ratio as 2 teams dominating 10 teams. So having a realistic chance of winning anything doesn't seem to curtail the English, Spanish or Italian leagues. What sets those leagues apart is primarily the size of the country, as it enables larger support, which equals more revenue, which means bigger stadia, bigger wage structures and ultimatley better football. Is Scotland now just too small to support the number of professional teams. Maybe the implosion of Scottish football would be the best thing that ever happened, as the number of teams that re-form, when and if it is re-built, could be limited, thus strenghtening the support base of the new teams, resulting in increased revenue, better/bigger stadia and a bigger wage structure......thus generating a better product. I truely believe Scottish football needs something much more radical than the number of teams in the league, to enable it to be re-born as a product which suits all involved and make Scottish Footbal stronger as a whole. Perhaps a bigger amature set up similar to Germany would suit our league structure, with pro clubs limited to no more than say 20? So......back to my original point, the size of the league changes absolutly hee haw. Much more radical re-thinking is required, but it wont happen as the powers that be are only concerned with self preservation! No body has the guts to rip it all up and start again. Maybe we could do worse than look at the american system where the players are owned by the league, and that the team that finishes bottom gets 1st pick from the draft next year, meaning that no team can dominate. Now that would be far more exciting! No? This post is too sensible. I'm calling shenanigans on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewiechaval Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hows this for league reconstruction, 16 Top league, 16 league 1, other 10 clubs drop down to regional/junior league. Changing to a pyramid system. League cup 32 teams go into 4 groups of 8 playing home and away. Top two go thru to knock outstage. To make it more appealing, if the scottish cup is won by a team already guaranteed european football then that place moves to the league cup winners. This could make a lot more money from tv aswell. Scottish cup stays the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browni Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Trial of "Friday Night Football" and promote the shit out of it I'm pretty sure that was tried in the '90s (maybe not tried, forced on us by Sky Sports) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm pretty sure that was tried in the '90s (maybe not tried, forced on us by Sky Sports) We played Hibs and it was a shite 0-0 draw, pretty much like Saturday. Disnae matter when and where, it's still shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 A 10 team SPL is bollocks but the Turkeys wont vote for christmas and change to 16 teams, they wany the extra income that 8 games against the old firm generates. Sky will put some extra cash in as there will be 4 old firm ties to cover and the ugly sisters will get a few extra quid. So the whole thing is nothing to do with improving the game in Scotland its about extra money for the clubs, SPL, SFL etc. SPL 1 and 2 its a joke, will any of the clubs in the top half of div 1 who will make up the bulk of the SPL 2 be wanting to spend lots of cash to bring their grounds up to SPL standards ? i think not. They have tried a 10 team set up in the past and it did not work, now we are going back to it as the solution to all the games problems you could not make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Do you think too many historical mistakes have been made to ever get back to something that works for all, not just the big two and the other 10 hanger ons?Sadly, I think that might be the case. The big 2 have a stranglehold on TV money and the 10 hangers-on are too scared to try and take it from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Seems like Dundee Utd (plus a few others) are making the right noises. From today's Scotsman: But Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson, who did not attend the meeting, later announced his firm intention to vote against the plan and stated his belief that he will not be alone in his opposition. It is understood Kilmarnock and Inverness are also against the proposal in its current form, and Hearts have yet to be convinced that it merits their support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The BBC discussion linked to from the Doncaster article is as interesting as this thread. Clicko You'll be hard pushed to find a supporter of a 10 team top flight. Does that mean that supporters are few and far between or that like Daniel O Donnell fans they're there but don't admit to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 According to Sky Sports News, Sepp Blatter has asked a task force to investigate whether to scrap 3 points for a win and one for a draw. As Scottish football needs a complete overhaul, not just changing the number of teams in the top division, should we consider a new points system? One option is to have 1 point for a 0-0 draw and 2 points for a score draw. Another option is to have a bonus point for scoring a certain amount of goals. Say a bonus point was awarded for scoring 3 or more goals, a team would get 4 points for a 3-2 win. Or, we could adopt a scoring system similar to the Emirates Cup: 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, and a point for every goal scored. Any other suggestions? The downside to any system that awards 'extra' points for goals is the possibility to manipulate and abuse it. However, the hope is that it would encourage, nay, force teams to come out and attack. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 i've never been a fan of this 1 point for a 0-0 and 2 points for a score draw and stuff that would just confuse little ol me im happy with 3 for a win and 1 for a draw haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Seems like Dundee Utd (plus a few others) are making the right noises. From today's Scotsman: Feels weird supporting them and the Jambos, but MON UNITED AND THE JAMBOS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The BBC discussion linked to from the Doncaster article is as interesting as this thread. Clicko You'll be hard pushed to find a supporter of a 10 team top flight. Does that mean that supporters are few and far between or that like Daniel O Donnell fans they're there but don't admit to it Similar comments here in regard to The Scotsman's article e.g. EACH CLUB. Nobody loses out in a sporting sense if EACH CLUB has to cut their cloth accordingly. It will mean less bonuses for board members, players and agents but those truly deserving of good salaries, i.e talented players, will eventually get their rewards if their talent takes them on to a higher stage. No professional club should be going to the wall if they are in the top league and being run properly. A 16 team league WOULD result in 20% drop in revenue for each team ( that's simple maths ) but how much benefit do Clubs really get by having Rantic 4 times a year? At ER it equals 3500 x 25 about £87K each game. Take off extra policing costs that having the great unwashed pis$ing and vomiting all over our fine city and it's hardly worth the bother. So ( please god ) only having 2 visits from Rantic would be a small price to pay for a decent league set-up. CASE CLOSED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm pretty sure that was tried in the '90s (maybe not tried, forced on us by Sky Sports) They tried it in the 07'08 Season but it failed hopelessly! No-one turned up! I'm sure they played a hearts Hibs game on the Friday but it only had about 10'000 fans there. - I think! I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Or, we could adopt a scoring system similar to the Emirates Cup: 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, and a point for every goal scored. Just out of interest, how the SPL would look if using the above scoring system: Celtic..................86 Rangers..............80 Hearts................72 Kilmarnock..........62 ICT.....................57 Motherwell.........48 Dundee Utd........39 St Johnstone......34 Hibs....................37 Aberdeen............36 St Mirren.............33 Hamilton.............22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Or, we could adopt a scoring system similar to the Emirates Cup: 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, and a point for every goal scored. Or we could do a 3 points for a Win, 2 points for a scored Draw and 1 for a No Score draw? But then again that wouldn't work because it goes against the rules and regulations of Football! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 As I said in the very first line of my post that you've quoted, maybe not for long: FIFA president Sepp Blatter has told a new football task force to investigate whether there should be a change to the system of three points for a win and one for a draw. Blatter said in an interview with www.fifa.com: "At the moment three points are awarded for a win and one for a draw, which is something we can discuss and decide whether it's a good thing or not." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 1. in court this year dundee united said the costs of hosting rangers on halloween 09 were 16 thousand quid against ticket income of £200k plus. so playing the old firm is still lucrative. 2. we can't afford to lose 20% of income. you would imagine the way the club is being run that other costs at at minimum already so the 20% reduction would have to be off the playing budget. you would be looking at cutting the amount spent on the squad by a third. EACH CLUB. Nobody loses out in a sporting sense if EACH CLUB has to cut their cloth accordingly. It will mean less bonuses for board members, players and agents but those truly deserving of good salaries, i.e talented players, will eventually get their rewards if their talent takes them on to a higher stage. that would be true if there were only 16 clubs in the world. what would really happen is that even more scottish players would head south to get the wages on offer there and we wouldn't be able to attract anyone of a decent standard up here. QUOTE (Stu @ Jan 5 2011, 02:20 PM) *Or, we could adopt a scoring system similar to the Emirates Cup: 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, and a point for every goal scored. so we would have got 7 points for drawing 6 each with hibs and only 4 for beating them one nil. that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 that would be true if there were only 16 clubs in the world. what would really happen is that even more scottish players would head south to get the wages on offer there and we wouldn't be able to attract anyone of a decent standard up here.First of all, there are more players than there are clubs, and they can't all head down south. Even in the worst case, (such as the 70s) when large numbers of good Scottish talent headed that direction, the league managed to keep producing more. In the EPL at least, the 25 player rule is going to reduce the number of opportunities and increase the competition for places in the lower leagues as fringe players are edged out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 so we would have got 7 points for drawing 6 each with hibs and only 4 for beating them one nil. that makes sense. It was only a suggestion. And hey, some people might actually prefer to watch a 12-goal thriller than a 1-0 game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 First of all, there are more players than there are clubs, and they can't all head down south. Even in the worst case, (such as the 70s) when large numbers of good Scottish talent headed that direction, the league managed to keep producing more. i don't think we can keep up with the talent drain, that's one of the biggest problems effecting the league. look at our squad, we haven't replaced quinn, hughes, clarkson or o'brien. right now anyone who is good enough to sit on a bench in the championship won't sign a new deal at fir park. who's to say it won't get to the point where anyone good enough to play in league two won't play here either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwellhighland Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 So am I right in thinking a 10 team league won't go ahead if Hearts and Dundee Utd vote no? 11-1 needed is it not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was only a suggestion. And hey, some people might actually prefer to watch a 12-goal thriller than a 1-0 game. Totally agree. Clubs have lost sight of the fact that this is supposed to be entertaining and maybe they should be rewarded for that as well as winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 yea it needs an 11-1 to go through Hearts Dundee Utd ICT Killie are all against it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanr Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hearts, United, Killie and ICT are said to be against it. So it won't go through and the rest of the SPL can hang their heads in shame IMO. Part of me was looking forward to the death of Scottish football so the fans could say 'told you so' and we could start again. Even still, I am quickly 'falling out of love' as it were with Motherwell FC and all they seem to stand for. Despite making the right noises through press statements and internet forums I am starting to see that there is no substance to the 'community' club that they claim to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 i love a bit of a conspiracy theory so... has anyone considered that this is all a bit of a ruse so we can keep the status quo and continue on with the 12 teams and the split? the spl will look as if they have tried to restructure the league but were thawrted, the fans will feel they beat the ten team league and then it can all be put to bed for a while and we can get on the structure we have with less moaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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