Streamlining The League

[LadywellToi]

Something I wanted to bring up at the MST event during the week, but was curtailed by time was the following. Hopefully it may result in a debate going forward.

 

We live in a country of 5.5m, we have over 30 councils and 6+ bodies officiating our football (SPL, SFL, SFA, Scot Amateur, Scot Junior, Highland League, etc.). In short we are over administrated and consequently too much money is tied up with servicing these bodies than on those at the coal face.

 

While I'd fight for the right of preserving democracy in government, the present system in football is unsustainable and is rooted in too many vested interests by old guys set in their ways (many of these bodies wouldn't ever vote to make themselves redundant even if streamlining things would result in universal improvements all round).

 

Therefore I would advocate (however may be swayed depending on the argument) that we need someone outside the game to have carte blanche to re-organise for the 21st century. Maybe a non football related (Sir John Harvey-Jones for example).

 

Doncaster and Dempster were in consensus that football is so slow to react. I listened to Chick Young interviewing David Johnston (Killie Chairman) today and even over the radio he seemed to wince when asked if it was possible to implement the changes for the start of next season.

 

Unfortunately we may need an Authoritarian regime in the short term to get things done.

 

Ultimately if we take present standards and attendances at FP as a datum, does anyone envisage an increase in things at FP to what it was like just 10 years ago, and then to what it was in the mid-80's?

 

Discuss.

[fizoxy]

Streamlining the management of the game is a must. The ratio of administrators to players must be frickin ridiculous! We also need to streamline the number of teams we have, and these decisions need to be made with the good of the game in mind, where "the game" is the sport of football and not the SPL.

 

That's why we need some outsider to get involved, as we need some logical, impartial, thinking.

 

I think it would be beneficial in the long-term if we lost our TV deal altogether. Then we really have to start from scratch, instead of trying to patch things up to keep the money coming in.

[DunnyMFC]

I agree we should streamline the management. If we just have 1 governning body taking control of all of Scottish football then it would free up alot of cash which could be used to help improve game such as more investments in grassroots level and into the leagues. Also we would be able to make changes and desicions more quickly.

[LadywellToi]

Bit deep for a Saturday night, however the lack of Motherwell action is akin to mid-June in an odd ending year.

[Kmcalpin]

There's a lot to be said for authoritarianism - it can be quick and decisive. However there is a down side - you might totally disagree with what is implemented. You pays your money you takes your pick.

[LadywellToi]

There's a lot to be said for authoritarianism - it can be quick and decisive. However there is a down side - you might totally disagree with what is implemented. You pays your money you takes your pick.

 

That is the gamble, however I'm so disillusioned with the status quo that I'd give a dictator a chance. I wonder if that's what they said in Munich in 1932.

[Cakes]

I agree that the number of paper-pushers that run the game is ridiculous and my solution is a bit difficult to put into words but imagine the Russians overwhelming the Reichstag and you won't be far off.

[Pepper]

It's not just those in power we need to streamline. For a county our size we have far too many teams and leagues. IMO the fans are spread too thin.

[steelboy]

except from saving a wee bit of money on admin what do people think would actually be achieved by merging the sfl and spl? if there was to be a merger what kind of voting situation would people want to be used in the merged set up, would all 42 clubs have an equal vote on all matters?

 

the clue is in the name, scottish football association. the sfa are the governing body for all the various groups that run football competitions in scotland, merging it all into one would mean that all decisions would be made centrally rather than the east of scotland, spl or highland making their own decisions based on what is best for their clubs.

 

england has almost exactly the same set up as scotland except they have an extra body controlling the senior england team and it doesn't seem to be be causing them too many problems.

 

all that will be achieved by rearranging the governing bodies will be some schadenfruede for people who resent the current system. you hear plenty of talk about the need for reorganisation but very little of what tangible improvement we'd get due to streamlining. rather than constantly shouting we need change i'd be more interested to hear what improvements people want to see. mcleish is a diddy and his report is only good for toilet paper. doncaster and the old firm have presented their plans and it's clear they believe that the strongest senior clubs should be the focus of attention and screw everyone else.

 

we all get annoyed when old firm fans think scottish football exists for them only but the working group our club has been involved with has shown a similar to disrespect to sfl clubs with the idea of making some of them play against b teams and regionalising others without asking. i personally think the sfa should be run in a way that is equally fair to all the leagues in the country and that the leagues should be free to control their own destiny without central interference.

[steelboy]

I agree that the number of paper-pushers that run the game is ridiculous and my solution is a bit difficult to put into words but imagine the Russians overwhelming the Reichstag and you won't be far off.

 

how many pen pushers are there?

 

It's not just those in power we need to streamline. For a county our size we have far too many teams and leagues. IMO the fans are spread too thin.

 

so fuck the wee teams?

 

who are clubs like montrose or albion rovers hurting? the people that run them, their players and their fans obviously enjoy what they're doing so why not leave them to it.

[Cakes]

how many pen pushers are there?

Too many?

[steelboy]

Too many?

 

i don't know.

 

if i was to say there are too many i'd probably need to know how many there are and have an idea of how many are needed.

[Modernist]

we all get annoyed when old firm fans think scottish football exists for them only but the working group our club has been involved with has shown a similar to disrespect to sfl clubs with the idea of making some of them play against b teams and regionalising others without asking. i personally think the sfa should be run in a way that is equally fair to all the leagues in the country and that the leagues should be free to control their own destiny without central interference.

 

100% Correct. Some of the SFL teams have an equal (or larger) fanbase than ourselves.

[Cakes]

i don't know.

 

if i was to say there are too many i'd probably need to know how many there are and have an idea of how many are needed.

Now you're just being rational. I was only looking to murder bureaucrats, not validate my wish to do so.

[steelboy]

Now you're just being rational.

 

i know, it's a pain in the arse.

 

it kind of sums up this issue though. we've got a lot of people shouting about needing change without really knowing what we have at the moment or what improvements they would like to see.

 

it isn't the sfa/spl/sfa that are holding scottish football back, we have have problems that can't be solved by restructuring (small population, no money, talent drain to english leagues, old firm dominance). i'm sure that improvements could be made to the sfa but casting them as the bogey man is an easy way to get cheap applause and stir up the traditional scottish self loathing and love of a blame culture.

 

there are a number of ways of looking at scottish football that you can judge it as doing quite well by. our per capita attendance is one of the best in europe and going by european achievements we've done far better in the past ten years than other countries our size.

[Pepper]

[quote name='steelboy' date='Dec 18 2010, 09:52 PM' post='250940

so fuck the wee teams?

 

who are clubs like montrose or albion rovers hurting? the people that run them, their players and their fans obviously enjoy what they're doing so why not leave them to it.

 

Of course not. Noone.

 

You're assuming I'm talking about wee teams. Dundee is a perfect example. Having two senior teams in that city is nothing short of madness. Just because it could accomodate both teams 100, 50 or even 20 years ago, when money didn't rule football, doesn't mean it can now.

 

All I'm saying is we're struggling to accomodate so many teams. We just don't have a large enough football going population anymore.

[steelboy]

[quote name='steelboy' date='Dec 18 2010, 09:52 PM' post='250940

 

You're assuming I'm talking about wee teams. Dundee is a perfect example. Having two senior teams in that city is nothing short of madness. Just because it could accomodate both teams 100, 50 or even 20 years ago, when money didn't rule football, doesn't mean it can now.

 

All I'm saying is we're struggling to accomodate so many teams. We just don't have a large enough football going population anymore.

 

should we amalgamate with accies then?

[Pepper]

should we amalgamate with accies then?

 

Motherwell Accidemical. Has a nice ring to it don't you think?

 

Would you say ICT has been a success?

 

Discarding over 100 years of history/tradition is never going to be easy to stomach but for me the alternative is watching the majority of teams in Scotland die a slow and painfull death. Things are not going to imporve without radical action.

[steelboy]

Motherwell Accidemical. Has a nice ring to it don't you think?

 

Would you say ICT has been a success?

 

Discarding over 100 years of history/tradition is never going to be easy to stomach but for me the alternative is watching the majority of teams in Scotland die a slow and painfull death. Things are not going to imporve without radical action.

 

ict has been a sucess but it had the bonus if bringing league football to inverness, it was a completely new start with a new ground.

 

i remember thinking i would chuck it when the 'lanarkshire united' stories were being banded about and i'm sure amalgamating clubs would result in many other fans doing the same.

[Pepper]

ict has been a sucess but it had the bonus if bringing league football to inverness, it was a completely new start with a new ground.

 

i remember thinking i would chuck it when the 'lanarkshire united' stories were being banded about and i'm sure amalgamating clubs would result in many other fans doing the same.

 

I don't doubt that. I'd find it hard to watch anyone other than Motherwell too.

 

I just get the feeling the decision is going to be made for us. It won't be long before teams are going to the wall left right and centre, then those fans will have a hard choice to make. It's change or die.

 

What would help would be for the TV money to be split evenly between the 12 SPL clubs!

 

It's all the Old Scums fault.

[Kmcalpin]

ict has been a sucess but it had the bonus if bringing league football to inverness, it was a completely new start with a new ground.

 

Quite a few folk in Inverness would disagree quite vehemently with that. When Caley & Thistle merged in a forced marriage more than a few folk were lost to the game forever. If we closed down Airdrie United, Hamilton, Albion Rovers and ourselves and formed Lanarkshire United do you think we'd attract a home support of 7,000? More like 1,500 - 2,000.

 

I for one would have no stomach for a Lanarkshire United - it would mean nothing to me. The same could be said in Falkirk, Dundee and Edinburgh

[Modernist]

I don't doubt that. I'd find it hard to watch anyone other than Motherwell too.

 

I just get the feeling the decision is going to be made for us. It won't be long before teams are going to the wall left right and centre, then those fans will have a hard choice to make. It's change or die.

 

What would help would be for the TV money to be split evenly between the 12 SPL clubs!

 

It's all the Old Scums fault.

 

If that's the case, It'll be 'FC Dossers of Motherwell' for me then. No if's, No buts.........

[Pepper]

Quite a few folk in Inverness would disagree quite vehemently with that. When Caley & Thistle merged in a forced marriage more than a few folk were lost to the game forever. If we closed down Airdrie United, Hamilton, Albion Rovers and ourselves and formed Lanarkshire United do you think we'd attract a home support of 7,000? More like 1,500 - 2,000.

 

I for one would have no stomach for a Lanarkshire United - it would mean nothing to me. The same could be said in Falkirk, Dundee and Edinburgh

 

Give it a genreation and noone will care who Caley & Thistle were.

 

We've all got an attatchment to our clubs but what we're talking about here is the long term future of Scottish football.

[Dead Star]

Tbh I'm going to agree and say we have far too many clubs for our population size.

[Mad Dog]

Don't forget our club and many others came about as a result of mergers. Was there opposition to it in the 19th century? Probably, but our club established itself as the best and the most popular team in Lanarkshire and we're still here.