claretband Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 As part of the proposed reconstruction, it looks like the playoff system is getting considered. Not too sure exactly how this will work in Scotland, presuming it will be a 1 up 1 down promotion system. Leaving that aside for the moment, does anyone else agree that the playoff system is fundamentally unfair? Ok it gives you a couple of exciting games at season end but at the expense of undermining the integrity of the league system itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Not that unfair. If you know at the start of the season you need to come in position x to be safe from play off thats what you aim for. I think a play off at both ends would be great. Ideally 1st place wins league then 2nd/3rd/4th/5th play for champs league/ europa spots would make everyone have something to play for all season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 does anyone else agree that the playoff system is fundamentally unfair? Ok it gives you a couple of exciting games at season end but at the expense of undermining the integrity of the league system itself. I'm not sure how I'd view the play offs as being fair/unfair, I'd want the play-offs to be either neutral or home and away to keep that side of things balanced, and all the games played in the run up to plays offs to be balanced equally home and away to keep that side of things fair, other than that as has been said as long as its clear at the start of the competition then everyone knows whats being played for the system in place right now is fundamentally unfair in every way and shows there is no integrity in the current format from a sporting or business sense, so it would be hard to argue a new system would be detrimental in that sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretband Posted December 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 the system in place right now is fundamentally unfair in every way and shows there is no integrity in the current format from a sporting or business sense How so? Also how is a playoff system where a club who is e.g.10 points ahead of a rival at season end can have their good season wiped out by a refereeing decision or an unlucky break over the course of just 2 playoff matches? Analogy - It's a bit like a game of 5 a sides with your mates where one team is well up and with 5 minutes to go some one says "ok lads let's play first to 3". Then you award the win to whoever wins the wee diddy game at the end. How right is that? Assuming everyone is told those rules at the start, that then makes it fair??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambunctious Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 How so? Also how is a playoff system where a club who is e.g.10 points ahead of a rival at season end can have their good season wiped out by a refereeing decision or an unlucky break over the course of just 2 playoff matches?Analogy - It's a bit like a game of 5 a sides with your mates where one team is well up and with 5 minutes to go some one says "ok lads let's play first to 3". Then you award the win to whoever wins the wee diddy game at the end. How right is that? Assuming everyone is told those rules at the start, that then makes it fair??? Who's to say that the team who is 10 points clear didn't get a few offside decisions/penalties going their way during the course of the season to hand them the points that put them in front in the first place? Are the one-off cup games unfair as well?? I'm all for the play-offs personally. Wee bit more excitement for us and a wee bit more cash for the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Who's to say that the team who is 10 points clear didn't get a few offside decisions/penalties going their way during the course of the season to hand them the points that put them in front in the first place?Nobody. But over a period of games it's less likely to affect the overall accumulation of points. Also, if you are the recipient of a bad, game changing decision in game 3or 4, you have plenty of other games to bounce back. A bad decision in a one-off match could have significant financial consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Not a fan of playoffs tbh. League position rewards consistency over the period of a season, play offs leaves it up to chance with injuries/suspensions/all round bad days. The cups are different because they're meant to be like that and aren't as important to the same degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 How so? Also how is a playoff system where a club who is e.g.10 points ahead of a rival at season end can have their good season wiped out by a refereeing decision or an unlucky break over the course of just 2 playoff matches? Analogy - It's a bit like a game of 5 a sides with your mates where one team is well up and with 5 minutes to go some one says "ok lads let's play first to 3". Then you award the win to whoever wins the wee diddy game at the end. How right is that? Assuming everyone is told those rules at the start, that then makes it fair??? It isn't like that though. Your analogy has a two team story. The SPL would give the same starting point to 10 or 12 teams, each aware of what is in front of them. In your story there is quite literally nothing to play for until the last 5 minutes. In the 'Play Off' style SPL the teams would need to work pretty much all season to get in/out of the 'Play Off' place. Only the top four or bottom four reach a clean slate. Teams either missed on on the top due to bad form or the bottom due to a run of results. It is a far from perfect template but not as simple as you make out. Every team would be playing for something until the 'PlayOff' scenario kicks in. It WOULD be exciting and would probably result in similar results to what we get just now........but I'm pretty sure it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Not a fan of playoffs tbh. League position rewards consistency over the period of a season, play offs leaves it up to chance with injuries/suspensions/all round bad days. The cups are different because they're meant to be like that and aren't as important to the same degree. So does a league season tbh. Not unheard of for a team to be decimated long term regarding an injury or two for their best all singing all dancing signing. Playoffs on fairness are not right, but for Scottish football they're perfect for it. Creates interest at the top of the table for much longer than the average 3 months of the start of the season. If it is good enough for relegation, it is good enough for the championship race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 How so? Also how is a playoff system where a club who is e.g.10 points ahead of a rival at season end can have their good season wiped out by a refereeing decision or an unlucky break over the course of just 2 playoff matches? Analogy - It's a bit like a game of 5 a sides with your mates where one team is well up and with 5 minutes to go some one says "ok lads let's play first to 3". Then you award the win to whoever wins the wee diddy game at the end. How right is that? Assuming everyone is told those rules at the start, that then makes it fair??? But if you say at the start "ok lads the top 4 teams will be in a playoff for the championship" then thats what everyone aims for, if you want to get more points fine but the top 4 is all thats needed to have a chance. Its similar to heats at running if you qualify for the race in 2nd you still have the smae chance as the person who beat you in the qualifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 But if you say at the start "ok lads the top 4 teams will be in a playoff for the championship" then thats what everyone aims for, if you want to get more points fine but the top 4 is all thats needed to have a chance. Its similar to heats at running if you qualify for the race in 2nd you still have the smae chance as the person who beat you in the qualifier. In theory it would also allow the Old Firm to play a lot more youngsters as, again in theory they should be in the Championship playoff a few months before anyone else. Which could lead to a few more Scots getting their chance to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Relegation play offs yes as long as its cast iron the team which is 1st gets league trophy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 So does a league season tbh. Not unheard of for a team to be decimated long term regarding an injury or two for their best all singing all dancing signing. Playoffs on fairness are not right, but for Scottish football they're perfect for it. Creates interest at the top of the table for much longer than the average 3 months of the start of the season. If it is good enough for relegation, it is good enough for the championship race. It does yeah to an extent, but at the same time, thats what you get for putting so much empasis on a very small group of players in your team. Rangers for example, have had Jelavic out for months, but have still managed despite other injuries. A playoff for a championship is even more ridiculous. I'm not keen on it for relegation either, but a championship playoff is just daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 A playoff for a championship is even more ridiculous. I'm not keen on it for relegation either, but a championship playoff is just daft. I think for the championship its daft but believe it would be good if set out like the championship for deciding European places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Bungo Pony Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Football competition is not supposed to be a dry, statistical exercise. It's meant to be about excitement, surprises and the real potential to win the Championship. With the current set-up, and any other set-up which does not involve a play-off for the title, every team bar the OF are on a hiding to nothing and are merely playing for the dubious honour of being 3rd. This is killing the game in Scotland. If we want to start every season with a realistic chance of 'Well (or any other "provincial" club) fighting for the title, then play-offs are the only way forward. Otherwise, in 10 years time, we will still be sitting here, awaiting a non-OF Championship win, with even fewer fans watching the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Win win win situation as far as i'm concerned. Apart from it bein a wee bit unfair.. But hey, rather that than the stagnating old firm fest we have the now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Pointless recommendation anyway that will never ever happen in the SPL. Needs 11 teams to vote through any change and some teams will not want 2 teams to be possibly relegated and the scum will never support any form of change that puts at risk their expected top 2 finish every year. Personally I think its an unfair system but it has worked well in England and elsewhere and Scotland is crying out for a change and some excitement and expectation that maybe someone else could finish second. Think that whoever tops the league over a season should always be regarded champions though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in motherwell Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Fairness aside, what the playoffs would give is competition. Remember that? It was that odd feeling at the start of the season when you went to the first game thinking that maybe, just maybe, this is the season where we'd do something special. Not that it's happened in Scottish football for a long time, but I digress. I think the playoffs would have every single team in the league fighting tooth and nail in EVERY single game - not just in the games against the so-called 'equal' teams, and running up the white flag against the Old Firm. We've seen in the past few seasons that the OF are very much beatable - financial hardship would seem to be hitting everyone in the league; the days where championships could be bought look to be a thing of the past. However - and a couple of folk have mentioned this - with the current refereeing shambles, one or two dodgy decisions could swing an entire season. We need real change on that front before anything can really improve, in my opinion. Put it this way...would play-offs be any worse than what we've got just now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craig Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 ...Think that whoever tops the league over a season should always be regarded champions though. I agree. But how about the team that is 1st in the league at the end of the season are crowned 'Champions of Scotland'. Then the Top 4 have a play-off for 'The SPL Championship'. We could have another trophy like they do for the promotion play-offs in England. I remember reading in the matchday programme from the Aalesunds game that they were 'Champions of Norway' for winning the cup, not the League... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-pidge Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 I agree. But how about the team that is 1st in the league at the end of the season are crowned 'Champions of Scotland'. Then the Top 4 have a play-off for 'The SPL Championship'. We could have another trophy like they do for the promotion play-offs in England. I remember reading in the matchday programme from the Aalesunds game that they were 'Champions of Norway' for winning the cup, not the League... I admire the theory, but I'm missing the point. The league winners are 'Champions of Scotland' then play for another trophy.... which of these has the bearing on European qualification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 How abouts if you have a lead of 10 pts over your play off opponents you get a 1 goal head start, 20 pts - 2 goals n so on. That way those who have been "more consistant" (OF) still get rewarded but there's still a good competetion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craig Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 I admire the theory, but I'm missing the point. The league winners are 'Champions of Scotland' then play for another trophy.... which of these has the bearing on European qualification? I wouldn't want to complicate things but how about the team that come first in the league get the first CL place then the team that wins the play-off gets the second. Then the other two teams in the play-off get EL spots? Then if the team that is 1st in the league wins the play-off wins, the other finalist gets the CL spot, just like the Scottish cup (As happened with QoS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Just see it like twenty20 cricket, grand prix darts, Prizefighter in boxing or the mental Rugby League playoffs. All variations on a format, all of which aren't without it's criticism. Maybe we need the ridiculous to pump a bit of life into this game just now. Did anyone hear Craigan talking about it on talkSport? I turned it on just as he was finishing so didn't hear his opinion on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muir on tour Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 None of this unfair pish, not unfair at all. Would make the league far more competitive, would give ALL teams something to aim for also. Play Offs for the top six and bottom six is the way forward if ye ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 In a word, no. Simply another pishy attempt to jazz up a dead on its feet product. More games = fans asked to stump up more cash = clubs back to a well that's all but dry. Are they ever going to get the f*cking message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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