Rickoza Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The repetitiveness certainly a major factor in apathy. If Aberdeen and Celtic get through to the Scottish Cup fifth round, and are drawn together and it goes to a replay, they'd be facing each other FIVE times in about three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 'Flow Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Rant over! Phew Yea, you confirmed what I was suspecting when I first posted mate. Watching on, the issue has snowballed but it's probably more than just the "10-team-league" which is getting all the focus and attention just now. That's what I was meaning when I posted. Devils Advocate Flow ? Very much so Al! 'Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-in-Oz Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Like i said before since when did tv revenue equal extra revenue for teams outwith the OF? & like i asked before if it needs an 11-1 swing & 3or 4 teams are planning to vote against it then surely it's already dead in the water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Based on the theory that, say, Motherwell makes 1 million from TV money from the current deal. If that was to raise to, say, 2 million (and these figures are totally made up) by increased TV revenue and that money then offsets the cost of admission to your average punter. Exactly! The league could change to 10, 14, 18, 68, however many number of teams you want, the TV deal on offer will not double Motherwell's income. Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The main issues for me are that: A) This is a ridiculous proposal, which appear to be put together by people with the memory of a goldfish. B) The size of the league isn't a pressing issue. Others are. I quite like a 12 team league, but I think thats just me. C) That the whole thing is a big secret. EDIT: Not meaning to have a go at you Flow. Just generally a bit peeved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Bungo Pony Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I remember a proposal, backed by the same arguments being put forward by Doncaster, that involved a 6 team SPL consisting solely of Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and United . They would play each other 6 times. It was said it provide competitive football that the TV companies would want to show. This current 10 team proposal is just as much mince as that one was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hi Flow,The cost of a match is only one aspect that needs addressed. In my opinion the 10 team format is fatally flawed from an entertainment perspective. It only breeds fear, and teams shut up shop, desperate not to lose, hoping to nick a goal to win the game. It's dire to watch. It was tdire under it's previous formats and it will be again. I think all the clubs need to find a solution that ticks more boxes than just increased TV money. I think the whole supporting community is adamant that a 10 team league simply isn't what we want. - The 11/1 voting structure needs to be changed. - The distribution of wealth needs to be equal. - The number of games versus the same opposition needs to be reduced. - The number of governing bodies needs to be reduced and centralised - A play-off system for relegation should be introduced. - Increased playing facilities are required at grass roots level. - Improved coaching required at grass roots level similar to Holland. - The cost of football to the average fan needs to be addressed. Should be comparable to going to the cinema, with price dependant on the quality of the seat. - The amount of games televised needs to be reduced to boost attendances (Never going to happen I know) - Improved highlights package at a time when children can watch it. - A wage cap system introduced - Squad size & nationality limited, in a similar fashion to the EPL. - Power moved away from the players back to the clubs. - Positive promotion of the league from the media is required, rather than the constant bashing that currently goes on. If they hate it so much what do they think will fix it? Positive critismim, rather than just 'It's rubbish'. Lots of the games in the EPL are crap to watch, but all we ever hear is that their league is the best in the world. Pundits are talking themselves out of a job, constantly berating the SPL product. - Plan for longer term improvement rather than short term gain. - Listen to the consumer. - Communicate with the consumer. - Improve the standard of refereeing I could go on all night! Some are more realistic than others, but it is infinately more complex than just the cost of football. The product must be improved as a whole. Failure to improve the product will result in further decline, and ultimately the death of Scottish football. I compare it to the British Car Industry. They refused to modernise and improve their product resulting in them no longer being in existance. Scottish football will go the same way unless the powers that be start prioritising the quality of the product, by puting the consumer at the forefront! Scottish football needs Government level intervention to save it. Take the decision out of the hands of the clubs, as they only have self preservation at heart, not the betterment of Scottish Football. Rant over! Phew Good post and well written. Totally agree that there is much more required than just tinkering with the size of the SPL as Scottish football (at both club and international level) is already fecked. Putting league reconstruction aside as the headline IMHO I see three key issues: Control of the game - need to ditch the SPL and merge all the other elements to create one controlling organisation for every level of Scottish Football with an agreed 10 year strategy to change the game after full and proper public consultation process. Impact of the OF - they were always slowly killing Scottish football and have just about succeeded. Caps on players salaries, limits on squad size, back to 3 foreigner rule, players salaries to be within a % of club revenue, and equal division of all TV and Radio revenues would all help level the playing field. Matchday experience - cheaper tickets, standing areas in grounds, alcohol back on sale, better stewarding etc and more entertaining attacking football would see attendances rise across Scotland I reckon. A strategy to achieve some of this is what we need and I'm sure many will disagree with some points and add others but without a "huge change" I dont see how it can survive unless the future really is that at 3PM on a Saturday afternoon all games will be beamed live from empty stadia and we can subscribe to a season ticket to watch the Well whilst never having to move our fat arses!! SKY will have its dream and own the game....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Neil Doncaster stated tonight that a move to a trimmed 10-team league would generate more money from TV Broadcasters. Now, if that money was used to reduce the cost of admission to games (i.e. the German model), would that change this debate any? Just out of interest... What? Like the original plan should have been instead of pissing it all away on greedy bastard agents and players wages? The game was up the minute the first TV money came into the game and clubs didn't use it to cap admission prices there and then. Too late now. Players up here are paid too much, disproportionate to the attendance figures, TV money should be invested in the future of the clubs, youth development, infrastructure, yes lower admission prices but above all it should not be used to fund the team. That should come from season tickets and admission fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modernist Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 What? Like the original plan should have been instead of pissing it all away on greedy bastard agents and players wages? The game was up the minute the first TV money came into the game and clubs didn't use it to cap admission prices there and then. Too late now.Players up here are paid too much, disproportionate to the attendance figures, TV money should be invested in the future of the clubs, youth development, infrastructure, yes lower admission prices but above all it should not be used to fund the team. That should come from season tickets and admission fees. Plus 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modernist Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hi Flow,The cost of a match is only one aspect that needs addressed. In my opinion the 10 team format is fatally flawed from an entertainment perspective. It only breeds fear, and teams shut up shop, desperate not to lose, hoping to nick a goal to win the game. It's dire to watch. It was tdire under it's previous formats and it will be again. I think all the clubs need to find a solution that ticks more boxes than just increased TV money. I think the whole supporting community is adamant that a 10 team league simply isn't what we want. - The 11/1 voting structure needs to be changed. - The distribution of wealth needs to be equal. - The number of games versus the same opposition needs to be reduced. - The number of governing bodies needs to be reduced and centralised - A play-off system for relegation should be introduced. - Increased playing facilities are required at grass roots level. - Improved coaching required at grass roots level similar to Holland. - The cost of football to the average fan needs to be addressed. Should be comparable to going to the cinema, with price dependant on the quality of the seat. - The amount of games televised needs to be reduced to boost attendances (Never going to happen I know) - Improved highlights package at a time when children can watch it. - A wage cap system introduced - Squad size & nationality limited, in a similar fashion to the EPL. - Power moved away from the players back to the clubs. - Positive promotion of the league from the media is required, rather than the constant bashing that currently goes on. If they hate it so much what do they think will fix it? Positive critismim, rather than just 'It's rubbish'. Lots of the games in the EPL are crap to watch, but all we ever hear is that their league is the best in the world. Pundits are talking themselves out of a job, constantly berating the SPL product. - Plan for longer term improvement rather than short term gain. - Listen to the consumer. - Communicate with the consumer. - Improve the standard of refereeing I could go on all night! Some are more realistic than others, but it is infinately more complex than just the cost of football. The product must be improved as a whole. Failure to improve the product will result in further decline, and ultimately the death of Scottish football. I compare it to the British Car Industry. They refused to modernise and improve their product resulting in them no longer being in existance. Scottish football will go the same way unless the powers that be start prioritising the quality of the product, by puting the consumer at the forefront! Scottish football needs Government level intervention to save it. Take the decision out of the hands of the clubs, as they only have self preservation at heart, not the betterment of Scottish Football. Rant over! Phew Plus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The solution is this: Keep it at 12 teams. The TV money gets shared equally amongst the 12 clubs (radical I know). Home teams keep 100% of their own gate money. This increases the competitiveness of the league but the OF still maintain an advantage albeit greatly reduced. The attendances of the 10 non OF clubs increase because admission fees have been reduced, clubs can bring in better players and there is now a genuine challenge to the OF. The OF benifit because they are now playing 38 competitive hard fought games of football in a season instead of 4, hence when they play in Europe they know what it's like to be in a game. The Scottish game becomes more attractive, competitive and attendances are on the up. Then in 5, 6, 7 years time when TV contracts are being re-negotiated the SPL have a better product to sell so can drive a harder bargain. Is this too niaive and simplistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 On a purely selfish note ( why shouldn't it be ? ) How does this proposal improve/change the product for me as a fan of a provincial SPL Club. In what way will my matchday experience change short/medium/long term ? In what other subscription service does the customer pay too much for too little in return, if any other organisation did this the customers would go elsewhere, sadly the clubs know that we are also bound by loyalty to the club. Two clubs dominate everything both on and off the field and for anything important to change one of those 2 turkeys have to vote for xmas, meanwhile the rest of us feed off the scraps from their table. Irrespective of how many clubs per division or how much the clubs charge for entry, the cancerous growth that is the Old Firm will continue to erode and eventually kill our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The only solution is to have SOME SORT of playoff for the title. You can fiddle with figures, rant about how you want a montrose away day, cry about revenue, youth setups and leaking roofs. But at the end of the day, Scottish football must become a competition! Thats the only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Oh aye and bring back bevy at games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber_nectar Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 We all think the product on the park is not worth paying what we pay for it. So reduce the prices. Will this make a difference to the product? probably not. Well not to begin with. The first thing the clubs need to do is get bums on seats. This will attract Sky and who ever else to televise games. Watching games on the tv with 3000 people in the ground is shit. Being in a stadium with 3000 people in it is shit. So make prices so cheap you can not resist taking your family and friends to watch Football. Make a real commitment to letting kids in for nothing for the next five years. Buy a season ticket and you could win a car. Come to Fir Park as an away fan and you could win a car. Clubs need to think outside the box. As flow suggested more tv money lower prices. Bollocks. More tv money more money to pump into over paid shite players. You pay less money to get into german games and you can have a beer. You cause any trouble you get the living daylights kicked out of you. The tv companies want to cover the games because there are people in the stadiums. Get people into the stadiums and tv companies will want the product. Make all adult season tickets £125 and kids in for nothing. Give it five years and see what happen. If you want a chance of winning the car pay £30 extra onto the top of your season ticket. Simples. Lets get this sorted and now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at the monent in a 12 team league Rangers get 35% tv cash (£4.5m pa), Celtic get 35% tv cash (£4.5m pa) and the other 10 split 30% tv cash (£400k each). In a 10 team league this would mean Rangers still get £4.5m,Celtic still get £4.5m and the other 8 would now receive £500k so clubs are gonna use this extra £100k to offset ticket prices? by what,taking £1.50 off per ticket over the 18 home games? its just bullshit! hows about this for a radical plan, have a 16 team league where Rangers + Celtic reduce their share to 16% each (£2m each pa) and the rest split 68% (£9m between 14 leaving each club with £642k). The Old Firm still get 3.5 times more than the rest money wise but a fairer distribution of money means all the rest have over 50% MORE than they currently do! Ok a 16 team league does mean only 30 games/15 at home but a 32 team group style league cup, euro play offs,relegation play offs or all 3 would easily give all clubs their precious 18 home games or more and if it doesnt, they have over £240k extra to help offset the loss of those games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 How many £30's would you need to cover the cost of the car? and how many £125 season tickets do you have to sell to reach this season's takings at the highter price? There has to be a tipping point in favour of the club, fuck knows where that is and who could even speculate when there are wages to be paid and maintenance to be forked out for Fir Park. The only place guaranteed cash is going to come from is the TV, we have to bend over and part our cheeks because bums on seats will not cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber_nectar Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 We would probably need to sell an extra 2000 season tickets to reach the same income. If 2000 people payed that extra 30 quid to win the car that would generate 60 thousand pounds. so say 15 grand for the car and the rest goes to the club. We get a chance to win a car and the club get an extra 45 grand in the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 at the monent in a 12 team league Rangers get 35% tv cash (£4.5m pa), Celtic get 35% tv cash (£4.5m pa) and the other 10 split 30% tv cash (£400k each). that's not true. right now the split works like this. 1 - 4% + 13% = 17%2.21m 2 - 4% + 11% = 15%1.95m 3 - 4% + 5.5% = 9.5%1.235m 4 - 4% + 4.5% = 8.5%1.105m 5 - 4% + 4.0% = 8.0%1.04m 6 - 4% + 3.5% = 7.5%0.975 7 - 4% + 3.0% = 7.0% 0.91m 8 - 4% + 2.5% = 6.5% 0.845m 9 - 4% + 2.0% = 6.0% 0.78m 10 - 4% + 1.5% = 5.5% 0.715 11 - 4% + 1.0% = 5.0% 0.65m 12 - 4% + 0.5% = 4.5% 0.585m not fair but not as bad as your making out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sorry its taken me hours to get back in the chat boys but reading through it all on page 4 Brazilian made a good point Back in Jan when Leeann came out and said those things he posted i think it shows more about our club now than anything else. As chief executive i think in this situation she has been silenced. Told by JB and vice chairman Derek Weir that they have made a decision on this due to (surprise surprise!) money. As a "community club" ive been stewing over this since yesterday and realise were being lied to. Lied to that we are a community club and that were a good working class team whose fans are most important. Back in the day i would say we were, but now? nah Boyle wants as much money as he can while still trying to get out and i dont blame him im just upset for him dragging our club through the mud by siding with the scummy glasgow twins just to make more money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 be interesting to see how much they are backing the whole thing when we end in in 10th place and hitting the drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Star Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 You know what, I'd gladly take relegation if we go down to 10 teams. Fuck your SPL, Division 1 is where its at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Pacino Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Obviously discussions such as this are taken so far above my level I have no input and as such, as a club employee, I am not too sure it would be appropriate for me to comment on it from a personal point of view. One thing though, purely from an interest point of view and this is 100% purely hypothetical. Neil Doncaster stated tonight that a move to a trimmed 10-team league would generate more money from TV Broadcasters. Now, if that money was used to reduce the cost of admission to games (i.e. the German model), would that change this debate any? Just out of interest... IMO it would only make a difference if admission was considerably reduced. If you're talking a couple of quid a game then forget it. SPL football is already overpriced and if as expected (by most on here) a 10 team league results in a further reduction in quality then I wouldn't waste my time, never mind my money, watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 We would probably need to sell an extra 2000 season tickets to reach the same income. If 2000 people payed that extra 30 quid to win the car that would generate 60 thousand pounds. so say 15 grand for the car and the rest goes to the club. We get a chance to win a car and the club get an extra 45 grand in the bank. an extra 2000? and would you pay £30 for a 1 in 2000 chance of winning a car? It's never going to happen because there aren't 2000 extra fans looking for cheap season tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Special Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 If all this was about money then I'd be better off supporting my local supermarket in the f*****g stock exchange!!! I'd probably be more entertained watching a crowd of folk screaming at figures than the pish that gets played week in week out in the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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