Fao Leeann Dempster

[fatcalf]

that's not true. right now the split works like this.

 

 

1 - 4% + 13% = 17%2.21m

2 - 4% + 11% = 15%1.95m

3 - 4% + 5.5% = 9.5%1.235m

4 - 4% + 4.5% = 8.5%1.105m

5 - 4% + 4.0% = 8.0%1.04m

6 - 4% + 3.5% = 7.5%0.975

7 - 4% + 3.0% = 7.0% 0.91m

8 - 4% + 2.5% = 6.5% 0.845m

9 - 4% + 2.0% = 6.0% 0.78m

10 - 4% + 1.5% = 5.5% 0.715

11 - 4% + 1.0% = 5.0% 0.65m

12 - 4% + 0.5% = 4.5% 0.585m

 

not fair but not as bad as your making out.

So that's a 4% payment for everyone then the rest made up depending on league placing? Add to that the prize money from the league for your league placing, any idea how much that is worth? Considering the OF are as good as guaranteed the first 2 slots it's a fair old difference but not as much as I believed I'll grant you. Can't believe how much furore over the OF keeping just £1 Million ahead of the rest, must be more to it than that.

[alanr]

Fed up of all this now, anyone else fancy switching to supporting Port Vale?

[johnstone]

Why don't we just mirror the English Premier league?

 

Two leagues of 20 teams. Play each other twice. Play off at the end of the season?

 

This would increases attendances across the board and also give smaller clubs access to much larger attandences when playing the OF, Hearts Hibs, Aberdeen etc. It would also keep supporters interested as it will be a different teams most weeks.

 

We seem to be stuck in this bizarre world where the benefits of playing the OF four times a season over rules everything else, but the main problem is in fact the boredom factor of playing teams like Accies and St Mirren all the time. All the clubs in the SPL figure each other out by Christmas!

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

I think the SPL is shit

[Catweazles ring piece]

What? Like the original plan should have been instead of pissing it all away on greedy bastard agents and players wages? The game was up the minute the first TV money came into the game and clubs didn't use it to cap admission prices there and then. Too late now.

Players up here are paid too much, disproportionate to the attendance figures, TV money should be invested in the future of the clubs, youth development, infrastructure, yes lower admission prices but above all it should not be used to fund the team. That should come from season tickets and admission fees.

 

Bingo.

There it is in black and white.

[nethertonwellfan]

Bill Leckie's view

 

Don't know if it has been posted before but the man talks sense.

[Spiderpig]

We seem to be stuck in this bizarre world where the benefits of playing the OF four times a season over rules everything else, but the main problem is in fact the boredom factor of playing teams like Accies and St Mirren all the time. All the clubs in the SPL figure each other out by Christmas!

 

 

Thats the problem the clubs are far too dependent on the income from those games and dont want to lose it. Most if not all SPL clubs if they were ordinary businesses would have closed down years ago as they are not financially viable. They are paying way too much of their annual turnover on players wages, at some clubs it 85% to 90% of their annual income !!!

 

All the TV money has done is fund ridiculous wages for average players, so its no surprise that clubs want as much cash as they can get. The situation is too far gone to change, you cant just cut wages overnight, you would have no players left.

 

There needs to be wage caps put in place and clubs forced to gradually reduce their expenditure till they are financially stable and able to live within their means, ie financing all expenditure from ticket sales, merchandise, hospitallity and catering, advertising etc. Any TV money would then be a bonus which could be used to lower ticket prices, attract more fans which in the long run would earn you more money. Simples

[steelboy]

So that's a 4% payment for everyone then the rest made up depending on league placing? Add to that the prize money from the league for your league placing, any idea how much that is worth?

 

that is the 'prize money'. i'm not sure what happens to the money from the bbc and overseas but that is how the entire sky/espn money is divvied up.

 

 

Why don't we just mirror the English Premier league?

 

Two leagues of 20 teams. Play each other twice. Play off at the end of the season?

 

because there's ten times as many people in england as in scotland.

[johnstone]

because there's ten times as many people in england as in scotland.

 

What about the lower leagues? Probably the same level of attendace as the SPL and they seem to be coping fine.

 

Also what does the population of the country have to do with the size of a league. The fans are still there.

 

1 Dunfermline

2 Dundee

3 Raith Rovers

4 Falkirk

5 Queen of South

6 Partick Thistle

7 Cowdenbeath

8 Ross County

 

Here is the current top 8 teams in the 1st Division.

 

Apart from Cowdenbeath all of those teams would not look out of place in the SPL.

 

The more I think about it the more I am warming to a 20 team league.

[Me Bungo Pony]

Doncaster wants the detractors of his wee plan to put up or shut up and accept his is the only sensible way forward. When I say "sensible", obviously I really mean the one that bests suits the OF.

 

Well, I'll put up;

 

(1) A top flight of 16 teams playing each other twice.

(2) A new League Cup for top flight only comprising of 4x4 seeded groups playing each other twice (QF-SF-F to follow) to give 36 guarenteed games.

(3) TV money to be divvied up equally between ALL clubs (only OF would lose out here ... boo hoo)

(4) All "prize money" to be divvied up equally between ALL clubs at the start of the season (obviously not "prize money" any more and the OF would be unhappy .... again, boo hoo).

(5) Summer football. This gives an opportunity to sell it to media when they have little else to show football-wise and will also save clubs a fortune in heating, electricity (esp floodlights) and largely pointless undersoil heating (what's the point of it when the pitch is fine but the infrastructure round about it is ice-bound).

 

The non-OF teams would gain and save a fortune out of all that. There may be a complaint about what happens during World/European Cups but if a Winter break is feasible then so is an "International Tournament" break. At least we would know exactly when (down to the individual game) that will happen and need only apply to the group games (plus WC last 16) which would be about 2-3 weeks. The OF would also scream blue (and green) murder over it but I don't really care. They could also scupper it by being the only clubs in Scotland to vote against it but hey-ho .... the other clubs can do the same to their selfish 10/10 proposal and hopefully they will .

[Wellfan1984]

Still don't get it! Are the SPL bigwigs telling us we can only support a top division slightly bigger than Andorra's but smaller than Luxembourg and Wales....

 

As for wage caps etc, no none of that, if a club goes bust they go bust. It should be up to the clubs to run their business correctly, and if they cannot meet specific promises at the start of every season they are relegated/kicked out of the league, like they've done in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Slovenia and/or are banned from buying and selling players (like in Macedonia, Albania, Greece, Slovenia, Turkey etc.)

[Big Stall]

(4) All "prize money" to be divvied up equally between ALL clubs at the start of the season (obviously not "prize money" any more and the OF would be unhappy .... again, boo hoo).

 

 

As much as I like it, in reality the OF probably deserve a bigger whack than the rest of us due to the fact the 4 old firm games are what the TV companies are paying for. Do sky really want to be showing Motherwell v St Mirren? Do they fuck, they pay the money for Rangers v Celtic * 4!

 

:wheres the tinhat smilie:

[andybug]

Dont see the point in a bigger league!

 

After 3/4 of the season there will be meaningless games and why would people bother to see teams trying some new players or youngsters and obviously the TV wouldnt bother either! It wouldnt work!

 

I totaly agree with the proposal if you want to bring Scottish Football ahead. Money rules the world and people need to accept it, wehter we like it or not!

 

I certainly prob wouldnt renew a seasonticket for a 18 team league to see 2 teams playing some terrible football, because you can be 100% sure that even in a 16 or 18 team league, teams will play not to lose and talent wont improve. Once certain teams have a decent amount of points the pressure is out and peope wont pay at the gate.... Games wont be on TV and here we go!

 

We need to have competition, excitemnt all year around, thats already lacking at times with 12 teams.

 

But again: This is my own view!

 

 

WELCOME TO THE FORUM MR DONCASTER!

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM MR DONCASTER!

 

 

[Waldo]

that's not true. right now the split works like this.

 

 

1 - 4% + 13% = 17%2.21m

2 - 4% + 11% = 15%1.95m

3 - 4% + 5.5% = 9.5%1.235m

4 - 4% + 4.5% = 8.5%1.105m

5 - 4% + 4.0% = 8.0%1.04m

6 - 4% + 3.5% = 7.5%0.975

7 - 4% + 3.0% = 7.0% 0.91m

8 - 4% + 2.5% = 6.5% 0.845m

9 - 4% + 2.0% = 6.0% 0.78m

10 - 4% + 1.5% = 5.5% 0.715

11 - 4% + 1.0% = 5.0% 0.65m

12 - 4% + 0.5% = 4.5% 0.585m

 

not fair but not as bad as your making out.

 

 

But do you not also get £80,00 every time you are shown on TV? That adds to the gulf too.

[nethertonwellfan]

See I personallly beleive Mr Doncaster wants a bigger league but he has to sell this iidea because it is his job. I have heard him speak during the consulation process (i mean the 6 clubs not really a consultation proces) and he was pretty positive towards the idea of a bigger league. I liken him to a Lib Dem politician trying to sell a hike in tuition fees. He is basically the puppet of the Old Firm like the other 4 clubs in this process.

[Ocelot Groomin']

we don't have to accept that money rules football, we can walk away.

 

It seems that things have came to a point, the game in Scotland is being laid bare. The Old firm might not bother a fkn jot, but clubs like ours should take care to at least listen.

 

They will harp on about loosing £1m a year, but us, the fans aren't prepared to pay the entrance fees they ask for what we see. An option that doens't appear to be on some clubs tables is to scale back & live within their means. maybe that means closing a stand, ditching a web site & playing players half of what they get now. If they are good enough they can move elsewhere....most of them are shite anyway.

[andybug]

we don't have to accept that money rules football, we can walk away.

 

It seems that things have came to a point, the game in Scotland is being laid bare. The Old firm might not bother a fkn jot, but clubs like ours should take care to at least listen.

 

They will harp on about loosing £1m a year, but us, the fans aren't prepared to pay the entrance fees they ask for what we see. An option that doens't appear to be on some clubs tables is to scale back & live within their means. maybe that means closing a stand, ditching a web site & playing players half of what they get now. If they are good enough they can move elsewhere....most of them are shite anyway.

 

Best post of the year:) agree 100%

[numpty]

As much as I like it, in reality the OF probably deserve a bigger whack than the rest of us due to the fact the 4 old firm games are what the TV companies are paying for. Do sky really want to be showing Motherwell v St Mirren? Do they fuck, they pay the money for Rangers v Celtic * 4!

No question that's what they pay for. It would just be nice if they thought that distributing the money more evenly might improve the quality of all the games in the SPL, and then more neutrals might want to watch that Motherwell v St Mirren game on Sky, and more fans might drift back to the games, and everybody wins. Maybe

[bigshinyhead]

Haven't read all comments so may repeat other views.

 

The problem with fitba' is that as a business model it's unviable. Too many clubs run at a massive loss and survive due to a super-rich owner pouring cash in. This happens less in Scotland now (if at all) but is prevalent in England due to the massive profile of the Premiership. In fact, the amount of money in the Premiership is a massive part of the problem we're facing as the cash filters down the English leagues meaning that most teams in the SPL can't match the wages in League 1 or even League 2. This means that it's difficult to hold on to players and almost impossible to attract them in the first place unless it's on loan. How many supporters scream at club owners to make more funds available? What they’re really saying is ‘make my club run at an even bigger loss and use your cash to plug the gap.’ The same supporters can also be heard moaning about ticket prices when the reality is that it’s impossible to run a top-flight football team on the income of 4000 supporters per home game alone so the teams look for more income and TV is the most obvious source. Good TV coverage can also increase sponsor revenues.

 

Now, like it or not, the TV companies are only interested in showing 2 teams in Scotland. They want to maximise the number of games these teams play each other and that means maximising the number of games every team plays each other, hence a 10-team structure. Smaller clubs also want the revenue from the home games against these teams which can easily be 2 – 3 times a normal home gate. Because of this Rangers and Celtic are able to call the shots and the other teams have to bend over or face financial ruin so we end up with a product which none of us wants, the Old Firm retain their stranglehold on the game and the fitba’s utterly rank. The only benefit for the rest of us is that our clubs stay in business but with absolutely zero chance of ever winning fuck all. The only prize is 3rd place and a Europa league slot which will end in September when we eventually face proper opposition. Neil Doncaster was specifically asked last night on the radio if Sky had an input into this reconstruction and he totally evaded the question which was all the admission that was required.

 

It’s possible that a more attractive bigger league will gradually increases attendances and, subsequently, income but in the grip of a recession, nobody’s going to take that risk and it’s probably unlikely to fully substitute whatever TV deal is undoubtedly on the table.

 

I’d advocate a 2-team top tier as a solution.

[Ernie]

I’d advocate a 2-team top tier as a solution.

 

Somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean please

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

You know what would be funny?

 

All the talk of the OF being bigger than us and talking down our league and saying they want to leave, lets kick them out.

 

Force them to join the juniors of the Faroe Islands league.

 

Sure SPL would suffer but we would find our ground and slowly build back up again.

 

Thats my dream reading a paper that the back 47 pages aren't about a Rangers reserve players hamstring injury. I mean the whole Jennings scenario? if that was any of the OF we would still be talking about it the only press i seen was Jonathan Watson ripping the piss in only an excuse (which was funny btw)

[Steve Diggle]

I’d advocate a 2-team top tier as a solution.

 

I just think we need more big religions

[Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn]

I just think we need more big religions

 

 

Lets make motherwell a jedi religion club!

[Guest]

I just think we need more big religions

 

Given that the Dalai Lama is a well fan, surely we should get Buddhism behind us?