Ballso Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 If someone raised something FAO the Trust on here, or sent one of the board members a PM, I guarantee it would be treated in the same manner as an official approach.Frazzle Does this mean that official approaches would be ignored as well?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedie Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Feel free to PM me Ballso and we'll see what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I didn't ignore your pm. You must've had three or four replies from me. I don't think you're in a position to be criticising us when you've basically requested something for nothing from us. On the subject of breaking promises, the agreement when your team was formed was that the Trust would support the team financially on the understanding that your players were all Trust members. I could be wrong but I don't think a single member of your team is currently a member, despite the continued financial support from us. I'd call that a broken promise. Your request will be considerred this week, but given that it's basically throwing money into a black hole from our point of view, I'd be voting against it and make no secret of that. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Didn't expect anything else to be honest but get your facts right, there was no agreement. Ask someone who knows about these things before jumping in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 given that it's basically throwing money into a black hole I know this argument is fuck all to do wi me but that statement pretty much summed up my feelings on my membership fee for the Trust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosserJoe Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I wouldnt say there was an agreement. From what I remember 'Flow and fatcalf said they would encourage their members to join - not "you must join the trust". Unfortunately no one did. I'm pretty sure if some did join up then this thread wouldnt be here and support would be ongoin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I wouldnt say there was an agreement. From what I remember 'Flow and fatcalf said they would encourage their members to join - not "you must join the trust". Unfortunately no one did. That was my understanding too Joe. That said I would feel a bit guilty about taking sponsorship or some financial support from the Trust if A) I was not a member or B) was not a member and was criticising it in public. You can't have it both ways. Maybe also the name should be changed if its still WellTrust FC. The football team is a great thing but it must decide its position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 On the subject of breaking promises, the agreement when your team was formed was that the Trust would support the team financially on the understanding that your players were all Trust members. I could be wrong but I don't think a single member of your team is currently a member, despite the continued financial support from us. I'd call that a broken promise. Your request will be considerred this week, but given that it's basically throwing money into a black hole from our point of view, I'd be voting against it and make no secret of that. Bully for you! Wind yer neck in. You've tapped into something you have no prior knowledge of and what you have quoted can only be construed as lies. Is it any wonder membership is low when those in the corridors of power at the trust are known to 'bend the truth'. In the quest to represent the majority of the fan base, it's hardly likely to entice new membership now is it? You have mentioned offence to myself and others involved in our team with regards a recent publication. Certainly I've seen this coming since election to your perceived elevated position. Doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good story though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedie Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Maybe also the name should be changed if its still WellTrust FC. An interesting suggestion Dave, I certainly don't believe that should be forced on the team. It's their choice. "The Trust" will be rebranding shortly anyway. Talk of copyrights etc is a load of nonsense As for the original post, I felt that it was pretty clear that the poster was looking to get a reaction. They appear to have got what they wanted. Quite disappointed that people think it's still 2005 and are wanting to stir up a rivalry which has long since died. Edit: It's probably worthwhile mentioning that the request for funding has still to be considered, if it's a compeling case then it's quite possible that the Trust would continue to help the WTFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 The football team is a great thing but it must decide its position. We know our position, it hasn't changed since day one. We are an amateur team to whom the Trust pay a sponsorship every season to promote their name. The agreement to encourage members to join the Trust still stands but we don't force anyone into it simply because when asked at the begining our players said they simply wanted to play fotball and avoid getting caught up in politics. Much like this. We have still to receive the due sponsorship for this season and are trying to make contact to arrange it. The Trust also asked us if we would discuss further sponsorship in the summer, at that time our arrangements were in place for this season but we were trying to arrange this meeting when good old Fraz decided to stick his oar into something he obviously hasn't been made aware of. Personal agendas and all that mean he'd be as well keeping out of it completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoss Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Without trying to stir things I think it would be best for Fraz and Speedie to step back from this one. I think there is split loyalties there. Maybe an idea for Darren and Matt to come along to a meeting at some point for discussions regarding the Trust and the relationship with the football team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Edit: It's probably worthwhile mentioning that the request for funding has still to be considered, if it's a compeling case then it's quite possible that the Trust would continue to help the WTFC. The request for funding has been passed way back before this season began, we still have to receive the cheque which was the initial point of discussion. The further request for a meeting was regards next season, made by the Trust board not ourselves and I resolved to make contact in January to arrange a meeting to discuss it further. So yu see there is no need for Frazzle to vote against something which has already been decided. He can veto next seasons all he likes but not very wise to publicly announce his voting intentions on here is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballso Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I didn't ignore your pm. You must've had three or four replies from me. I don't think you're in a position to be criticising us when you've basically requested something for nothing from us. I know that you replied to my original PM's, but I was referring to the 2 PM's that I have sent you within the past week. If you had still to discuss the situation with the MST board, common courtesy means that a simple reply to this effect would have been welcomed instead of no reply at all On the subject of breaking promises, the agreement when your team was formed was that the Trust would support the team financially on the understanding that your players were all Trust members. I could be wrong but I don't think a single member of your team is currently a member, despite the continued financial support from us. I'd call that a broken promise. Given that neither you nor I were in our current positions when the initial funding was agreed, I don't think either of us can comment on any so called promises. As Joe has said above, there was no such agreement. Your request will be considerred this week, but given that it's basically throwing money into a black hole from our point of view, I'd be voting against it and make no secret of that. Frazzle Is the football team playing under the name of the Trust not considered as marketing and promotion in the same way as a pitch side advertising board at FP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballso Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 As for the original post, I felt that it was pretty clear that the poster was looking to get a reaction. They appear to have got what they wanted. Quite disappointed that people think it's still 2005 and are wanting to stir up a rivalry which has long since died. Speedie, I have no reason to try and get a reaction from anyone or try and stoke up a rivalry. I was just disappointed that my attempted contact with your colleague was going unanswered. As Frazzle had said that if we wanted to get in touch with MST, we should either PM or post a message on the board for your attention. After trying the PM unsuccessfully, I resorted to the second option. I have only joined the team this season and have no knowledge of what has gone on in the past between WTFC and FPC. However, I can see that yourself and Frazzle are in a difficult position with regards to this due to your involvement with FPC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedie Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 After trying the PM unsuccessfully, I resorted to the second option. Look at how you started the thread, a very simple FAO Frazzle, please contact me etc etc would have been far more reasonable. I don't really think I'm in a very difficult position to be honest, I put the FPC stuff to the side. When we discussed the funding request last April I suggested that I didn't feel a cash payment of £200 was in the Trust's best interest with regards to exposure of the Trust's brand. I felt that we would have been better to sponsor jerseys/training tops etc up to the value of £400. The Trust would have got far more exposure and the team would have got more value from the deal. As far as I'm aware the equipment wasn't required at the time. So the £200 payment should have been forthcoming. If it hasn't then that's a mistake and for that I apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballso Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I think that after trying to contact Frazzle twice via PM, he would have known that I was looking to contact him. By wording my post the way I did, I wanted to show that isn't true to his word. It may then have given others on the board an opportunity to share any similar experiences. I believe that you have put your FPC hat to one side and applaud you for that mate, however I don't feel that Frazzle has. He has shown his contempt for our team in his post in this thread and his comments with regards to MJ's book. I think that the best thing to do would be a meeting with representitives from WTFC and MST to discuss the future with regards to funding and n fact this is what I have been trying to initiate for the past few weeks. Both organisations need to understand what they require from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't hold any agenda with regards to FPC/WTFC when I'm discussing matters relating to the Trust. I don't understand how you can possibly attempt to take the moral high ground when you are publicly criticising an organisation who throws money at you year after year for no return. There's every chance that you'll still get your funding - all I said was that I won't be supporting it personally. Despite it being a worthless agreement to us, I supported your previous request as I didn't want there to be any conspiracy theories (I know MJ loves them) about myself and Phil being on the board, but now that you're biting the hand that feeds, I'd be against wasting any more money. It's one thing when you don't give us anything in return, but when you attempt to publicly undermine us and further damage our reputation, I don't see why we should be held to ransom by you. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't hold any agenda with regards to FPC/WTFC when I'm discussing matters relating to the Trust. I don't understand how you can possibly attempt to take the moral high ground when you are publicly criticising an organisation who throws money at you year after year for no return. There's every chance that you'll still get your funding - all I said was that I won't be supporting it personally. Despite it being a worthless agreement to us, I supported your previous request as I didn't want there to be any conspiracy theories (I know MJ loves them) about myself and Phil being on the board, but now that you're biting the hand that feeds, I'd be against wasting any more money. It's one thing when you don't give us anything in return, but when you attempt to publicly undermine us and further damage our reputation, I don't see why we should be held to randsom by you. Frazzle Why don't you let one of the grown ups deal with this. Perhaps they'll know the facts before handing out their perceived wisdom. We haven't made a request for funding yet, we are overdue payment for this season. The rights or wrongs of that decision are of no consequence to you as you were obviously not on the board when that decision was made otherwise you'd know that. You obviously are in denial about an agenda as your viewpoint on this funding issue clearly shows. No-one has ever deemed the sponsorship to be money for nothing until now but I'll speak to the people who matter and guage whether their opinion mirrors yours. We value the Trust's assistance, in return they get their name promoted through our use of Well Trust FC, not exactly money for nothing. As previously stated the board requested a meeting to discuss furthering the relationship so I suggest you do the job you're there for and organise said meeting rather than taking cheap pot-shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney devine Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfinz Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't hold any agenda with regards to FPC/WTFC when I'm discussing matters relating to the Trust. I don't understand how you can possibly attempt to take the moral high ground when you are publicly criticising an organisation who throws money at you year after year for no return. There's every chance that you'll still get your funding - all I said was that I won't be supporting it personally. Despite it being a worthless agreement to us, I supported your previous request as I didn't want there to be any conspiracy theories (I know MJ loves them) about myself and Phil being on the board, but now that you're biting the hand that feeds, I'd be against wasting any more money. It's one thing when you don't give us anything in return, but when you attempt to publicly undermine us and further damage our reputation, I don't see why we should be held to randsom by you. Frazzle Hmmmmmmmmm, what an ambassador for the Trust! People will be queing up to join with non self centred attitudes like that! Personal vendetta, pretty much sums up the 'egomaniac' accusation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 There's no pot-shots coming from me. It was one of the WTFC who decided to start a public slanging match with us. Last seasons funding was granted when I was on the board. I was absolutely behind it at the time, and it was me who proposed it at the meeting when you had given me the letter. As far as I was aware, that was done and dusted and you had the money in the bank. This thread is the first time it has been raised with us that the cheque hasn't been received - that's a matter for our treasurer, nowt to do with me. The pm I received from Ballso read: "Alright mate Just noticed in the WellBoys thread that the next MST meeting is on Wednesday of this week. Can I ask you to raise the issue of sponsorship for WTFC at the meeting. I believe that you currently contribute £200 annually to our running costs and would like to enquire whether this is still available? " To me, that's a seperate request for more funding. Hee-haw to do with a cheque going missing. So I'd ask you to get your facts right if it's all the same to you. Before this rumbles on any further, I'm not in the slightest bit interested in having a public argument with you - it won't make either of us look big or clever. You've already made me fully aware of your level of integrity in private so I don't intend wasting any more time with you on this petty nonsense. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfinz Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 The pm I received from Ballso read: xyz Integrity............... Confidentiality........ Trust the trust....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Don't think there was anything confidential about that message, to be fair. He did sign it with his real name which I decided to leave off the post. Besides, it was that particular poster who brought the private discussion into the public domain. I do love how constructive you are when you post. You're a real asset to the forum... Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 should this maybe no be in the WTFC section of the site? It seems to me that there's a few posters on here who are going out all guns blazing to wind up and take the piss out of the trust. Without knowing the full story, I don't see the point of the Trust wasting money on the football team if they aren't going to get any extra members out of it? Just seems like the money could be better utilised elsewhere. Obviously I don't know the full story though, so don't really want to say too much in case i'm completely wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 It seems to me that there's a few posters on here who are going out all guns blazing to wind up and take the piss out of the trust. Without knowing the full story, I don't see the point of the Trust wasting money on the football team if they aren't going to get any extra members out of it? Just seems like the money could be better utilised elsewhere. Obviously I don't know the full story though, so don't really want to say too much in case i'm completely wrong! On the contrary - you're completely right! Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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