Mst

[Al B]

Nail. Hit. Head.

 

I do not really care about a amateur football team sponsor but

 

 

• was the stuff needed?
  
• will mst only donate stuff that us a 'good photo opportunity?
  
• is the trust set up for the benefit of MFC or MST?
  

Handing over a cheque is good enough for Children in Need it's good enough for mst. If you ever wonder why the likes of me are no longer trust members .........

 

I was about to make a post there, but that kinda touches on what I was going to say.

 

I have absolutely no previous experience of the trust (in all honesty im that way on purpose...football for me personally is something I enjoy for 90 minutes on matchdays, im not interested in becoming more involved with the club or knowing how it works etc...I just like going to the football).

 

I also have no affiliation with either WTFC or FPC, in fact not being from the area I didnt even know FPC had a football team, and I was only aware of the WTFC one initially because that was the name of the old forum so you couldnt really not notice it.

 

I guess with those comments im just trying to establish my objectivity and impartiality so, that said, im a bit dismayed to find that the trust seems to base their decision on which projects recieve their support, by how well it protrays them, rather than for the good of the actual project.

 

As a non-member of the trust (and therefore i'd assume an ideal target for having you promote the trust in a positive light, making membership seem an attractive prospect), i'd be interested to know what the proposals from the club were that you decided against? I'm assuming that with the club having approached you for funding, it was something they felt would be of great use or assistance to them, and in my opinion how much the club would benefit from any proposal, should be the defining factor in whether the assistance (financial or otherwise) is granted or not.

 

In short, i'd expect the existence and actions of any club trust to be be in the best interests of the club, rather than in the trust itself. It would seem that this isn't the case here and things that would be of great benefit to the club are being overlooked because they dont meet the interests of the trust. In my view that is wrong, and the opposite way round fom the way it should be...and the reason I (and possibly many others) choose to stay away from involvement in any trust.

 

As I say, as a non-member i'd be interested to hear what the clubs request involved, and the reasons why the trust decided that it wasn't viable enough to recieve their assistance. After all...this information is a determining factor in people deciding if it's something they would wish to be involved with. Surely every part of Motherwell Football Club's support structure is there for the ultimate good of Motherwell Football club, rather than that of the individual parts?

[DosserJoe]

Bloody hell, how this thread got into 4 pages in a day I will never know.

 

I would ask anyone reading this to consider the following points...

 

1. Frazzle is just one member of the Trust board. His viewpoint on here not the view of the Trust Board overall unless explicitly stated. I'm pretty sure there are 11 members of the board, including myself, AndyRoss, The Dossier and BK. Not everyone agrees with Frazzles viewpoint on this.

 

2. It has been identified by The Dossier on the email listing today that there had been confusion with our treasurer, hence the reason for the non payment of an agreed sum. However I understand that discussions did take place with regards to Terms & Conditions of the payment of the £200 this year.

 

3. The Trust has a problem of falling membership, no secrets, no smokescreens. The Trust board are commited to taking steps to reverse this trend and attract people to join. Whilst some people will accuse Frazzle of his stance because of his FPC job, I really believe his position on this matter is more down to the fact that the Trust Board have to consider carefully how every penny is spent so that the membership GROWS this year, not falls backward. My personal point of view is that funding WTFC from Trust coffers is not benefitial toward this goal. If we had a couple of people from the team sign up to the Trust then it would be benefitial and I would definetly be strongly in favour of financial support. Put simply, it's a numbers game. The club (MFC) will take less notice of the Trust with it's current membership than it did back at the start. As fatcalf mentioned but, there would be no way WTFC could demand their players sign up for the Trust so our two organisations need to work out a way we can help each other with our problems.

 

4. I wasn't in the Trust Board when the 2nd request for a donation came from JP. What I would say is that from a personal point of view, if it was a choice between Youth Development or helping JP out - it would be Youth Development every day of the week. My view is formed not because of a return to the Trust, but more from a return to the Club. I would rather the Trust spent money helping the club find the new James McFadden or Phil O'Donnell than helping JP do essentially what he is paid for. Also, from talking to other members of the Trust board, the donation request was not turned down because of anything to do with Logo's or Publicity, it was knocked back because it would have taken away at least 1/4 of the money the Trust has in it's account. It was suggested that the Trust could partially fund the equipment.

 

From the above I think it's clear that discussions need to take place between WTFC reps and MST reps so we can sort out this sorry mess. What I would say is that whilst some of Frazzle's comments have been wide of the mark, some of the abuse leveled back has been a mile out of order. If we are talking about working together then personal abuse gets you knowhere.

[DosserJoe]

In short, i'd expect the existence and actions of any club trust to be be in the best interests of the club, rather than in the trust itself.

 

I don't wholey agree with that statement. The Trust should act in the best interest of the fans of the club. This may differ from the Clubs stance on official matters. As an example "No Means No" was probably not in the interest of the club financially, but was something that many fans thought was in their own interest.

[Scooby Hugh]

Can someone from the trust advise me on the situation with the scanner that they were buying for Motherwell

 

Shug

[Yabba's Turd]

Plagiarism might be a winner in your line of work, but it takes more than that to prevail in an argument on here

 

Win!

[Well-Made]

I think this thread has run it's course and I will close it.

 

DosserJoe has supplied the answers to the points raised.

 

If someone from the Trust can PM Scooby re: the scanner please that'd be appreciated.

 

The Trust do fight a losing battle in whatever they do won't be accepted by all sides but they do the best they can with the limited resources and time they have.

[Al B]

Disappointed to see it closed. I dont agree that it wasnt going anywhere, I just think it was going in a direction that wasnt doing certain quarters any favours, and closing it seems to trivialise peoples questions and queries.

 

That will be me as far as the subject goes, as I said before I know precious little about the trust and was genuinely interested in finding out their stance on a few things that were being raised there. Unfortunately closing it kinda makes it seem like there are things to be swept under the carpet regarding the questions being asked (not saying there is...just that it makes it seem like it), and again just seems to diminish the appeal of any involvement.

[Gaag]

to be fair, I agree with you on this. I'm gonna re-open the thread, but I'd suggest starting another thread to discuss other Trust matters that don't relate to WTFC as it is the main topic of conversation on the thread there.

 

I'm just as keen as you to learn more about the Trusts stance on things, and think it's only fair that both sides of the fence are given an equal opportunity to put their points across.

[Yabba's Turd]

I'm just as keen as you to learn more about the Trusts stance on things, and think it's only fair that both sides of the fence are given an equal opportunity to put their points across.

 

Isn't that what a public forum is all about? no one forces anyone to post anything

[Gaag]

Yep?

 

We've had lots of requests from people to re-open this thread, prune the tit for tat and use it as an almost Q&A area for people to learn more about the trust and their stance (perceived or otherwise) on things.

 

I haven't really seen anything on this thread that warranted it to be closed, and given that there were still outstanding questions and issues... I think that people should be given the opportunity to state their opinions.

 

This isn't a slagging match for the trust, wtfc, fpc or anyone else, I just reckon that there have been some very interesting points raised in this thread that I'd like to learn more about.

[Al B]

I don't wholey agree with that statement. The Trust should act in the best interest of the fans of the club. This may differ from the Clubs stance on official matters. As an example "No Means No" was probably not in the interest of the club financially, but was something that many fans thought was in their own interest.

 

Yeah in essence I do agree with you Joe, the fans should be the main priority of a supporters trust, which is why I was wondering what the club were asking for assistance with, as at 3 and a half grand it clearly wasnt anything trivial, and as fans of the club we all have whats best for it at heart. If the trust needs fans for it to grow, and is acting on behalf of those fans...then surely they should be privalaged to information regarding requests that have been granted/declined, so that they know whether their interests are in fact being represented?

 

Also, the trusts responsibility to the fans aside, I can honestly say that I find the intimation that the decisions regarding whether to grant/decline assistance are based on how much the trust can be seen to be helping, rather than how helpful the assistance would be in itself, quite off-putting.

 

Of course it may well be the case that depending on the nature of the clubs request I would possibly agree with the stance of the trust, but how will we ever know if it's something we'd want to be involved in, when we dont know what that is?

[Brazilian]

AND ANOTHER EDIT: just seen in your post the trust declined a request from John Porteous (club physio) because it was too much money for not enough return ???????????? I've seen the accounts report from the trust and was also led to believe that the Trust was setup to help the club and support. I would have thought that since next to fuck all was done for the club last year (I'm sure you'll correct me but the disabled section is all I recall and its not even started for other reasons) any request from one of the most critical departments of the club should have went thru' without the requirement for a return.

 

That statement has pissed me off more than any of your petty squabbling and since its fans money your talking about we're not getting enough return from your decisions

 

 

Just spotted that other edit from Brazilian there - Aye, you're right that one of the key functions of the Trust is to support the club, but it's also important to us that Motherwell fans know we're doing it. John Porteous asked for us to purchase items that were very expensive (about £3500 if memory serves me right) and that would never be seen by anyone. I think for that level of investment, it's not unreasonable to want to be able to give something that will be seen with our badge on it. We've provided various pieces of training equiptment (goalposts, etc), but when you start talking about thousands of pounds, it's only reasonable that we should be recognised for it.

 

Frazzle

I've done hell of a lot of digging to find this funding request and the reasons on which it was refused

 

I've read all the minutes for the past 2 years or so and can find no record of the request or the grounds on which it was rejected, so I went more direct and I have to say If what I have unearthed is true then it is an outrage that despite the amounts involved this has been hidden from the members and the public.

 

I'd like the trust to reply to this as to be quite frank your pathetic reasoning that the trust wouldn't be recognised for the contribution is beyond comprehension, the trust would have received more positive publicity amongst the Motherwell support and the public at large than your amateur efforts could ever have dreamed off.

 

To tell you the truth I feel physically sick about this. I've praised you personally and all the others who have put in a massive amount of effort for the Phil O'Donnell memorial fund work that will not be forgotten by those that know and care but someone somewhere has made a huge error of judgement regarding distribution of the MST funds. Funds that have been generated by fans for the good of the trust and the club.

[TheLip69]

I think this thread has run it's course and I will close it.

 

DosserJoe has supplied the answers to the points raised.

 

If someone from the Trust can PM Scooby re: the scanner please that'd be appreciated.

 

The Trust do fight a losing battle in whatever they do won't be accepted by all sides but they do the best they can with the limited resources and time they have.

 

 

Surely, if a question is asked on the open boards that is where it should be answered, not by PM'ing someone.

Has anyone from the Trust addressed the question as to why an organisation, supposedly representing the fans, is fighting a losing battle with those same fans?

[Kylie]

What 'Scanner'

 

One of those things you get on a 3-in-1 printer type thing for about £34.99

[Bop]

I've done hell of a lot of digging to find this funding request and the reasons on which it was refused

 

I've read all the minutes for the past 2 years or so and can find no record of the request or the grounds on which it was rejected, so I went more direct and I have to say If what I have unearthed is true then it is an outrage that despite the amounts involved this has been hidden from the members and the public.

 

I'd like the trust to reply to this as to be quite frank your pathetic reasoning that the trust wouldn't be recognised for the contribution is beyond comprehension, the trust would have received more positive publicity amongst the Motherwell support and the public at large than your amateur efforts could ever have dreamed off.

 

To tell you the truth I feel physically sick about this. I've praised you personally and all the others who have put in a massive amount of effort for the Phil O'Donnell memorial fund work that will not be forgotten by those that know and care but someone somewhere has made a huge error of judgement regarding distribution of the MST funds. Funds that have been generated by fans for the good of the trust and the club.

 

I'm confused now, what have you unearthed thats made you feel physically sick? What have they been upto?

[Kylie]

I'm confused now, what have you unearthed thats made you feel physically sick? What have they been upto?

Think he's trying to say that there is no record in any of the minutes from the MST regarding the 'JP' request for money.

[SuperCC]

I have just spent approx 4 mins reading through this thread to come to the conclusion that I really couldnt give a toss about any of the content and have just wasted those 4 minutes :(

 

IMHO none of this should be under "club chat" as its all internal whinging from a small subset of fans and is as relevant as me starting a thread to complain that I've "just spilt broon sauce down my new well top" and although thats about a 'Well top - does anyone give a toss?

 

PS. does anyone know how to remove a broon sauce stain :(

[Yabba's Turd]

I've read all the minutes for the past 2 years or so and can find no record of the request or the grounds on which it was rejected, so I went more direct and I have to say If what I have unearthed is true then it is an outrage that despite the amounts involved this has been hidden from the members and the public.

 

What have you unearthed? I'd like to know, I've put money into the trust directly and indirectly, what has my money NOT been spent on?

[Yabba's Turd]

PS. does anyone know how to remove a broon sauce stain

Just let some of your excessive slavers drip onto it....

 

[fatcalf]

I have just spent approx 4 mins reading through this thread to come to the conclusion that I really couldnt give a toss about any of the content and have just wasted those 4 minutes

 

IMHO none of this should be under "club chat" as its all internal whinging from a small subset of fans and is as relevant as me starting a thread to complain that I've "just spilt broon sauce down my new well top" and although thats about a 'Well top - does anyone give a toss?

 

PS. does anyone know how to remove a broon sauce stain

Well one poster mentioned it was, in his opinion, "Comedy Gold" so not everyone shares your opinion. Some others would have had tomato sauce.

[SuperCC]

Well one poster mentioned it was, in his opinion, "Comedy Gold" so not everyone shares your opinion. Some others would have had tomato sauce.

 

And there is a lot of comedy gold in the Compost corner section where it belongs. And it was a roll n sausage with fried onions so tomato sauce wisnae even an option

[fatcalf]

Would have thought fried onions negated the need for any sauce whatoever. That puts a whole new slant on things, you have no case to come on here and moan about a wasted 4 minutes after wasting such a delicacy with too many accompaniments on yer roll n sausage.

[SuperCC]

Would have thought fried onions negated the need for any sauce whatoever. That puts a whole new slant on things, you have no case to come on here and moan about a wasted 4 minutes after wasting such a delicacy with too many accompaniments on yer roll n sausage.

 

Sorry

[Ballso]

I'm sorry to see that since last posting, this thread has moved onto other criticisms of the Trust. That wasn't my intention when starting the thread. The reason I used the Club Chat board instead of our own is that there was a better chance of someone from the MST seeing it on here rather than the WTFC board.

 

If my PM's had not been ignored by Frazzle in the first place, this wouldn't have spiralled. From here, I think that further dscussions between WTFC and MST about this should be held off board. Thanks to AndyRoss and The Dossier for their attempts at helping.

[Well Up For It!]

Having read over all of this is kinda saddens me to see such a rift between Motherwell fans. Can't you vent you frustration at Hamilton or Hearts fans instead?!

 

With no involvement in any of the three groups, I think I see a few possible solutions...

 

1/ For those not happy with the activities of the MST, why don't you get involved and make your voice heard. I don't understand the politics, but surely every member of the MST has a voice, and this way any problems could be discussed and dealt with in a less public place than these here forums?

 

2/ The guy in charge who a lot of fans are going out their way to slaughter here is doing the MST stuff in his own time i'm sure, out of his love for the club. I refuse to believe that any loyal Well fan would do over the club for personal gain, so maybe cut him a bit of slack - although I do think answers are needed to some of the points raised.

 

3/ Can't the FPC and WTFC both receive an equal grant from the Well Trust, and in return the team could do a joint fundraiser or something to raise funds for the trust? Sounds like a solution to me!

 

4/ And finally...if there is so much rivalry between the FPC and WTFC, why can't they play a game to get it out their systems?! Or do they play each other already?! Maybe the winner can get an extra few bob in their grant...

 

But at the end of the day, arn't we all Well fans? Don't we all want the best for the clubs? Sure we will disagree in methods, etc - but if all warring parties put their heads together, I'm sure a solution can be found!