dosser1886 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm just curious as to why the MST members get first dabs on the seats Oh FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe_Green Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Oh FFS Exactly my case in point (very well illustrated) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I would want to ask what leverage Motherwell and the other 9 SPL clubs have to really put pressure on the OF. What our league needs more than anything else is even just the illusion that it is a level playing field and that there is a chance no matter how small that a non OF club can win the SPL. The money being swallowed up by the OF must be distributed more evenly. It is Scottish Footballs only chance. Going one step further I would also like to ask if it could be possible to break away completly and start a new top league minus the OF. If nothing else it would make the OF realise that they need the rest of the Scottish clubs to survive. Call there bluff at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe_Green Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I would want to ask what leverage Motherwell and the other 9 SPL clubs have to really put pressure on the OF. What our league needs more than anything else is even just the illusion that it is a level playing field and that there is a chance no matter how small that a non OF club can win the SPL. The money being swallowed up by the OF must be distributed more evenly. It is Scottish Footballs only chance. Going one step further I would also like to ask if it could be possible to break away completly and start a new top league minus the OF. If nothing else it would make the OF realise that they need the rest of the Scottish clubs to survive. Call there bluff at the very least. Tried this before but the chairmen of non OF clubs shat out of it at the last minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 tbf The Old Firm agreed to the proposals of the "Rebel 10" which was led by the Pieman at Hearts. As proven the current lot of chairmen don't have the baws or the will to stick together like they did under his reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser1886 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Exactly my case in point (very well illustrated) Moe - what age are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslappy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Surely if the old firm want a ten team league they are shooting themselves in the foot. The reputation of the league itself is surely poor and indeed the of purse pockets arent as deep as what they used to be. If you look at it from an old firm view they want money. money so they can compete with the likes of wigan etc when it comes to sky money. This though is a narrow minded view. if you ask the latest wonderkid who you want to sign for wigan or one of the old firm the answer would surely be wigan - you are playing in one of the best leagues in europe. Contesting with the Chelseas arsenals etc. Even if you take a cardiff or qpr the answer is the same. The championship must be viewed as a better leauge. Reasons? Well it leads to the premiership. you are more likely to get bought by a english premiership club. The real reason though is that it is a tight league where 4,5 or 6 teams could all get promotted. the level of competition is huge. Compare that with the SPL. Even if the old firm get pots of cash, where is the level of competition. Yes being a old firm player may get you into the champions league but as of this season do they not have to play 3 qualifiers with the last round being the likes of roma liverpools etc of the world. Pots of cash to spend on players to make the gap ever wider between the top two and the rest? No wonder attendances are dwindling. When hibs got relegated and came back up that year they were getting huge attendances. Why? They had a chance to win something. Lets face it if you are a provincial side what takes you to a game or gets you to invest in the club? It is because you are a die hard. What other reason is there in supporting a side who have little chance of winning anything. You have to laugh at SKY when the say x club hasn't won anything for going on 50 years. Look at who has won things over 50 years or more likely the last 20 years. So hear is the idea. 14 clubs. 2 up 2 down. Playoff situation as it will give the sides coming up a needed cash boost to compete with those in the league. play each other twice leading to 26 games at which point there is a split of 7. The advantage of 7 is that taking it the old firm will be 1 and 2 that leaves 5 teams all jostling for third place. A 7 split after26 will give each provincial side something to play for i.e the chance of furhter games with the old firm and the cash this generates. sides at the bottom of the top seven, and sides at the top of the bottom seven may have meaningless games but this will encourage them to play youngsters and develop them hence meaning that the mid teams will be better prepared to face the next season as the youngster will have been blooded. A further 6 games to be played. I have to confess this is the bit I least like as the fixtures may lead to more away games but that happens now. The advantage of 14 means that you have more chance to avoid an old firm back to back resulting in a knock to your teams confidence. Will allow for a less boring league " a here is hearts for the umpteenth time". Will allow for a flexible break i.e a proposed break for 2 weeks in jan (what fan isn't skint in Jan) But leave it flexible so that if the weather hits early use the dates in jan as possible dates. The league will be more interesting surely than 10 team league playing each other. If ten is a easier thing to promote surely you are promoting a boring league. so you can sell it to the old firm as a more interesting league a more competative league (though deep down no one can compete with the finances that the old firm have so they like turkeys cancel christmas in that they will be 1st or 2nd). Hence with a more competative league they might still not be able to compete with wigan et al but they could bring back some quality to there teams. Hence give themselves a better chance of beating a roma or liverpool. No doubt flawed in so many ways but I needed to get that rant out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Good post HappySlappy. Anyone who's willing to put a bit of thought into the situation deserves to be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe_Green Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Moe - what age are you? Why do you need to know that ? And can I ask, do you have anything to do with the running of the trust ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 nae chance. i'd rather we stood on our own two feet than be subsidised by old firm fans anyway. season ticket sales would collapse as well, it'd be gutting knowing that you were giving 150 quid to motherwell and 13 quid to every other club. it'd also be sickening to see a team like gretna and accies with no fans getting millions from other clubs every year. By that 'stand on our own feet' logic we shouldn't get any TV money - it should all go to the OF, cos let's face it, the TV companies are only paying for them, not us. And as for the latter part o your post. Should the old firm be 'sickened' that our little diddy club benefits financially from their fan base and from the TV deal which they attract ?! If we go by that thinking we mayswell give up on any thooughts of competition at the top of the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 By that 'stand on our own feet' logic we shouldn't get any TV money - it should all go to the OF, cos let's face it, the TV companies are only paying for them, not us. And as for the latter part o your post. Should the old firm be 'sickened' that our little diddy club benefits financially from their fan base and from the TV deal which they attract ?! If we go by that thinking we mayswell give up on any thooughts of competition at the top of the SPL. that's not how it works with the tv deal though. you pay your money to sky and take whatever games your given. with your season ticket you pay for your own team's home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser1886 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Why do you need to know that ? I'm grooming you. And can I ask, do you have anything to do with the running of the trust ? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 any news how this went couldnt make it due to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Was very good. Derek spoke well and so too did leanne. Spoke of how ten team was to create a strong 2nd tier with the idea of merging two strong leagues in a few years down the line. Poor poor turnout tho possibly 40 max. Very impressed tho, the 2 of them sat their til well after 9 talking in detail about everything brought up. We also had a radical legue reconstruction idea brought forward by one audience participant, possibly well ahead of his time (Included merging SPL split with division one mid season or something) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Was very good. Derek spoke well and so too did leanne. Spoke of how ten team was to create a strong 2nd tier with the idea of merging two strong leagues in a few years down the line. That's probably the only way this suggestion would be acceptable, if there was a firm commitment to expanding the league I could accept a 10 team league as a means to that end. But only if there was that firm commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studos Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 That's probably the only way this suggestion would be acceptable, if there was a firm commitment to expanding the league I could accept a 10 team league as a means to that end. But only if there was that firm commitment. I agree with you on that Matt however I wonder why Neil Doncaster hasn't promoted this publicly and tried to sell it on the two to three seasons at ten allowing the teams in SPL 2 to accumulate funds that will bring them up to a standard that will allow them to compete in the 18team ESS PEE LL. Tonight was the first i'd heard of the short term pain for long term gain aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have to agree with Jam on this one. Derek and Leeann spoke really well and you get the feeling that the club are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Reading between the lines the club are in favour of expanding the leagues but Hibs and Aberdeen are blocking it (not the Old Firm, all they care about is getting 4 OF derbies a season) because of the amount of money that they owe the banks. A 14 team league was proposed and rejected by 6 of the clubs because a split would have to occur in January. This would mean clubs that were a bit away from relegation would have nothing to play for , for half a season. That is a sound argument. The club outlined the positives of a 10 team league which included an earlier start to the season an end to the split and better prize money (x10 of the current level) for the second tier. They have said that this should come from the prize money for finishing in 1st and 2nd in the SPL which is currently 35% of the TV money. The alternative was from the SFA who give no funding to it's member clubs. So the choice that faces the club is the status quo that is driving away fans or a ten team league that will drive away fans. It's not an easy choice is it? Away from the reconstruction both representatives of the club gave honest answers regarding Craig Brown and Archie Knox's departures and you get the feeling that they feel as betrayed as we do. I could go on forever but on Derek I have to say is a gent and has Motherwell at his heart and you can see that in not only the way he spoke about Motherwell but also Aberdeen . Before the event he came up to my friend and I and spoke to us for about 15 minutes explaining things that happened in the last few months within the club. It was his choice to do this and we respected that. He is Motherwell born and bred and I feel alot more positive about Motherwell's position in all of this if not Scottish Football as a whole. And one last thing Derek wants you to know that Stuart McCall was FIRST CHOICE for the job and anything other you have read in the papers is BOLLOCKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I agree with you on that Matt however I wonder why Neil Doncaster hasn't promoted this publicly and tried to sell it on the two to three seasons at ten allowing the teams in SPL 2 to accumulate funds that will bring them up to a standard that will allow them to compete in the 18team ESS PEE LL. Tonight was the first i'd heard of the short term pain for long term gain aspect. I saw him quoted on that although typical meedja concentrated on other aspects. Got me thinking which is why I wrote my OSB piece suggesting just that. Strange if he doesn't concentrate on that part of it cos that would change a lot of opposition I feel. I reckoned he didn't see that as a major selling point when faced with the obvious pound signs excuse. For me it's a vital part of any reconstruction process, there is no short term fix this time, we need a long term vision and if everyone agrees a bigger league is they preferred option then everyone should be working within a specified time frame to achieve that, altering their budgets as they go to phase out the over reliance on TV income. I just took that too far didn't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I agree with you on that Matt however I wonder why Neil Doncaster hasn't promoted this publicly and tried to sell it on the two to three seasons at ten allowing the teams in SPL 2 to accumulate funds that will bring them up to a standard that will allow them to compete in the 18team ESS PEE LL. Tonight was the first i'd heard of the short term pain for long term gain aspect. What was said though was that there would be a review after 3 years but nothing was guaranteed. Judging by the opposition to the proposals maybes will not convince them (well they certainly will not convince me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studos Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 TV income did come up and it appears there is fair amount of work being done on a stand alone SPL TV Channel. Time will tell if there is a desire for that but the stumbling block will be the funding required to get the TV Channel up and running before subscription fee's start coming in. All in all an interesting evening. Even managed to get my British Cup idea in to Derek during a half time chat at the bar. He didn't discount it as a bad idea but at the same time he hasn't invited me to discuss it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 And one last thing Derek wants you to know that Stuart McCall was FIRST CHOICE for the job and anything other you have read in the papers is BOLLOCKS. He would say that, wouldn’t he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 That's probably the only way this suggestion would be acceptable, if there was a firm commitment to expanding the league I could accept a 10 team league as a means to that end. But only if there was that firm commitment. I think I'm right in saying that this was something Walter Smith mentioned some time back, whether that was part of the proposal then I don't know. However, if two leagues of 10 is a way of building up the finances of, and giving some stability to, the clubs below the SPL, to prepare them for the step up to a 16 or 18 team league then I think that is definitely something we can accept. However, as you say, we would need that firm commitment that, say 5 years down the road, we bring the SPL up to the required strength. It would need to be a hard and fast limit though and not "5 years down the road we'll take a wee look and see how things are if some of the clubs arent quite ready we'll give them another couple of years" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 And one last thing Derek wants you to know that Stuart McCall was FIRST CHOICE for the job and anything other you have read in the papers is BOLLOCKS. I think that's worse than having to take him because he was the last loaf in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have to agree with Jam on this one. Derek and Leeann spoke really well and you get the feeling that the club are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Reading between the lines the club are in favour of expanding the leagues but Hibs and Aberdeen are blocking it (not the Old Firm, all they care about is getting 4 OF derbies a season) because of the amount of money that they owe the banks. A 14 team league was proposed and rejected by 6 of the clubs because a split would have to occur in January. This would mean clubs that were a bit away from relegation would have nothing to play for , for half a season. That is a sound argument. The club outlined the positives of a 10 team league which included an earlier start to the season an end to the split and better prize money (x10 of the current level) for the second tier. They have said that this should come from the prize money for finishing in 1st and 2nd in the SPL which is currently 35% of the TV money. The alternative was from the SFA who give no funding to it's member clubs. So the choice that faces the club is the status quo that is driving away fans or a ten team league that will drive away fans. It's not an easy choice is it? Away from the reconstruction both representatives of the club gave honest answers regarding Craig Brown and Archie Knox's departures and you get the feeling that they feel as betrayed as we do. I could go on forever but on Derek I have to say is a gent and has Motherwell at his heart and you can see that in not only the way he spoke about Motherwell but also Aberdeen . Before the event he came up to my friend and I and spoke to us for about 15 minutes explaining things that happened in the last few months within the club. It was his choice to do this and we respected that. He is Motherwell born and bred and I feel alot more positive about Motherwell's position in all of this if not Scottish Football as a whole. And one last thing Derek wants you to know that Stuart McCall was FIRST CHOICE for the job and anything other you have read in the papers is BOLLOCKS. Well put Nethertonwellfan, where abouts where you sitting? trying to put names to faces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Well put Nethertonwellfan, where abouts where you sitting? trying to put names to faces Right down the front mate. I was wearing a Llanelli jersey. My mate's beer got spilled in the first half The poor guy was a wee bit embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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