fizoxy Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why don't we do this anymore? Hearts and Dundee Utd have got a lot of recent success out of this in recent years. I guess Steve Saunders is one example of this, coming from Queens Park, and we beat a lot of teams to Derek Adams back in the day, but we seem to be avoiding this avenue altogether. Is it the transfer fees? Or is the talent just not there anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I think it's fees Theres sooo many players in England that lower league clubs sometimes dont mind about letting them go to free up wages but in Scotland the lower league teams need all the players they can get! so it costs money to get them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambunctious Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 It might also be the case that we've avoided any manager that has ever managed in scotland before and would have any knowledge of the lower divisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 There is that, but a young player doing well in the second division is an unknown, unproven punt, whereas in the English lower leagues your susually taking on a guy with a little experience and who'll already be playing full time, granted it's still abit risky, but less of a risk I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'd say Dundee United are very much the exception rather than the rule. Plus, thats what, 3 players? Conway, Swanson and Gomis? The only player I've seen in the lower leagues that looked worth a punt was a boy from Montrose thats going to St. Johnstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I defo think we have missed a trick over the past few years bye not plundering the lower leagues Players off the top of my head Halliday, Snodgrass, Dorrans, McPake and Davidson from Livingston, Gomis, Swanson and Conway. There some cracking players! Bye the way who is the scout at Livi because he certainly has an eye for a player!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 All those players, especially the Livingston lot went for money - we don't have that! Alot of the players come from the local Youth Clubs. Many are missed by Livingston though (Scott Arfield, Danny Wilson for example). Murieston United, if there was one youth team in West Lothian that Motherwell should look at it would be them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesacs Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 if Motherwell want to pay me to go to Div1,2 or 3 games every week to watch games and try to spot some talented players, then I'd happily do that it would probably be better than going to FP anyway!!! there are defo players out there, i think as someone mentioend earlier - we dont have the money to take a risk on them Frazer Wright from Stranraer to Killie Ryan Stephenson from Ayr to Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 it would probably be better than going to FP anyway!!! It really isn't. The suggestion that the top of the 1st division is just as good as the SPL or that there are plenty of 'gems' in the lower leagues is total shite. Stevenson is a bit of an odd one, a Chelsea youth player, you could argue that he's back to the level he should've been at anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 It really isn't. The suggestion that the top of the 1st division is just as good as the SPL or that there are plenty of 'gems' in the lower leagues is total shite. Stevenson is a bit of an odd one, a Chelsea youth player, you could argue that he's back to the level he should've been at anyway! I go to a few Albion Rovers game when i can and i love the lower leagues Barry Barr is a great player, used to be at St Johnstone then joined Rovers and is now at livi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 All those players, especially the Livingston lot went for money - we don't have that!In a nutshell. The reason we have gone for managers who can bring in loans and frees from the English lower leagues is because any decent lower div player in Scotland usually requires a transfer fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesacs Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 It really isn't. The suggestion that the top of the 1st division is just as good as the SPL or that there are plenty of 'gems' in the lower leagues is total shite. Stevenson is a bit of an odd one, a Chelsea youth player, you could argue that he's back to the level he should've been at anyway! well my season ticket wont be getting renewed next season anyway - not value for money, and I cant jusitfy the outlay when I'm not enjoying it and when i now have other commitments Stephen Cosgrove - a Man Utd youth player................what happened to him when he came to us? went down and down and down. I wouldnt say there are "plenty" of gems, but there are defo players who can make the step up,they just need to be given the chance. I remember speaking to McFadden at one of the POTY events in Fir Park, although I cant remember the full conversation, it was along the lines of there were other players who he played with that were miles better than him, however he was just lucky that on the day he stood out above others. So luck has alot to do with it, getting a chance to prove yourself is the problem. Teams dont have the spare money to give someone a chance. One of the guys i know used to play for the Well, got released and ended up signing for Stenny after a few weeks of nothing. Two days after he signed for them, he got a call from Celtic saying they had just heard he got released and wanted him. Needless to say, Stenny told him he was under contract and couldnt go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 The scary thing is, the amount of players that are lost to the pro game altogether. All because our clubs have their priorities all wrong, that and the stupid U17 jump to U19's. I swear at times I watch Sunday amatuer I enjoy it more than what I've seen on SkySports or at Fir Park or Station Park (Livi United) or when I watch Bathgate or West Calder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tottenmfc Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 In a nutshell. The reason we have gone for managers who can bring in loans and frees from the English lower leagues is because any decent lower div player in Scotland usually requires a transfer fee. Surely some of these players only require a fee of £10k - £20k which you make back by paying lower wages than these loan guys... And if it works out you have a sellable asset at the end of it... too much like long-term thinking maybe. Sure it used to be that we even took a few players from the juniors and they worked out well but now it's the opposite, we sign up youngsters, keep 1 or 2 after the age of 21 and the rest end up dropping down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Surely some of these players only require a fee of £10k - £20k which you make back by paying lower wages than these loan guys... And if it works out you have a sellable asset at the end of it... too much like long-term thinking maybe.Sure it used to be that we even took a few players from the juniors and they worked out well but now it's the opposite, we sign up youngsters, keep 1 or 2 after the age of 21 and the rest end up dropping down. Whether that is true or not, the board has a long standing philosophy of not paying transfer fees. I can see the logic in that as it frees up more funds to pay wages. Guys like Skippy and Porter have been brought in this way and been very salable, as have players developed by our youth system. So it's difficult to argue against it's effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 well my season ticket wont be getting renewed next season anyway - not value for money, and I cant jusitfy the outlay when I'm not enjoying it and when i now have other commitments Stephen Cosgrove - a Man Utd youth player................what happened to him when he came to us? went down and down and down. I wouldnt say there are "plenty" of gems, but there are defo players who can make the step up,they just need to be given the chance. I remember speaking to McFadden at one of the POTY events in Fir Park, although I cant remember the full conversation, it was along the lines of there were other players who he played with that were miles better than him, however he was just lucky that on the day he stood out above others. So luck has alot to do with it, getting a chance to prove yourself is the problem. Teams dont have the spare money to give someone a chance. One of the guys i know used to play for the Well, got released and ended up signing for Stenny after a few weeks of nothing. Two days after he signed for them, he got a call from Celtic saying they had just heard he got released and wanted him. Needless to say, Stenny told him he was under contract and couldnt go Thats fair play like, I don't have a season ticket due to where I live, but I go as much as I can. I don't think you're alone in questioning the real value of it. I don't doubt that there are some decent players kicking about, but as I said, they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. The conversation with McFadden doesn't surprise me at all, I'm sure everyone has a story of someone they know that was a footballer who 'wasn't even close to the best in the school'. Its why I've got respect for Glenn Hoddle and his academy, stopping decent players being lost to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah the McFadden story happens all over the place. If I was to pick 5 guys from my school team and boys club that would have made it, Martyn Corrigan probably wouldn't have been one of them...but there you go. He goes on to carve a pretty successful career and for a few seasons in the middle, be the best player at a decent club, and the rest all end up in normal jobs playing 5's once a week. I've always said the best footballer in the country is probably a plumber or an accountant somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah the McFadden story happens all over the place. If I was to pick 5 guys from my school team and boys club that would have made it, Martyn Corrigan probably wouldn't have been one of them...but there you go. He goes on to carve a pretty successful career and for a few seasons in the middle, be the best player at a decent club, and the rest all end up in normal jobs playing 5's once a week. I've always said the best footballer in the country is probably a plumber or an accountant somewhere. 100% agree. Chris McGuire at aberdeen wasnt even in the top 5 in his year. But he did get a chance and also didnt booze every weekend ala scottish teenage boys do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yeah the McFadden story happens all over the place. If I was to pick 5 guys from my school team and boys club that would have made it, Martyn Corrigan probably wouldn't have been one of them...but there you go. He goes on to carve a pretty successful career and for a few seasons in the middle, be the best player at a decent club, and the rest all end up in normal jobs playing 5's once a week. I've always said the best footballer in the country is probably a plumber or an accountant somewhere. True. None of the guys I played with went pro, but there was some excellent footballers among them. I have no doubts they could have played professional level if they had got the chance at 16 or 17 to join a pro club. It's even worse these days when scouts are picking out young players for their height and strength over skill. It might get to the stage were a supporters 11 could beat the first team! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'd say Dundee United are very much the exception rather than the rule. Plus, thats what, 3 players? Conway, Swanson and Gomis? The only player I've seen in the lower leagues that looked worth a punt was a boy from Montrose thats going to St. Johnstone. They also got Barry Douglas from Queen's Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallow Dave Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yeah the McFadden story happens all over the place. If I was to pick 5 guys from my school team and boys club that would have made it, Martyn Corrigan probably wouldn't have been one of them...but there you go. He goes on to carve a pretty successful career and for a few seasons in the middle, be the best player at a decent club, and the rest all end up in normal jobs playing 5's once a week. I've always said the best footballer in the country is probably a plumber or an accountant somewhere. Same for Jas Weir, who went on to be captain of St Johnstone. Nowhere near the best player in his year at Braidhurst, though he did have a bit of bulk that the others didn't have at the time. He did start on a YTS, though and I think a bit fortunate to get full time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Frazer Wright from Stranraer to KillieRyan Stevenson from Ayr to Hearts Both are fuckin' shite footballers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 It's even worse these days when scouts are picking out young players for their height and strength over skill. It might get to the stage were a supporters 11 could beat the first team! Here there's an idea 1st team....supporters team......in the words of Harry Hill FIGHT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Both are fuckin' shite footballers Frazer Wright is a thieving c**t aswell. Hate the guy with a passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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